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-   -   My Sons car getting a new motor. (http://ratrodsrule.com/forum/showthread.php?t=33843)

donsrods 07-29-2015 06:28 AM

My Sons car getting a new motor.
 
Well, not a new motor, but redone for the 3rd time. When my Son built his 30 rpu about 5 years ago, we built a 455 Olds for it. Right from the start it had engine oiling issues. Two cylinders would oil up after just a few miles of driving and we would have to carry spare plugs with us and change them to get it running well again.

We tore that engine down and found the rings in two cylinders had broken, so we decided to start fresh, bought a new block and also he bought two heads from his Brother that came off of a 66 tripower Olds. We had everything redone by a local race shop, and we assembled it again. This engine also had oil fouling, but in a totally different cylinder ! :(

For 4 years he has put up with that one cylinder not sealing well and finally he decided enough was enough, so we pulled the heads and took them to a different engine builder who went through them and replaced all the valve guides with bronze guides. He said the stainless valves and all that the last builder did were fine, but the guides were just slightly sloppy. But he also felt that the rings were not seating in the cylinders, from what he saw inside the heads.

So, we have decided to quit messing around with an engine that should be a piece of cake to build, and we pulled his engine last night and are going to have this new shop go through it and this time we are going to let them assemble it. This guy, Mark, builds 7 second drag cars for a lot of well known cars, and he is only about 40 miles from us, so the engine should be done right finally.

Dan is also changing out the cam he had, a Comp Cam 280 H, because it is just too radical for the kind of driving we do around town. He is going to have Mark put in a 270H cam, which should be better off the line.......the 280 didn't come in until about 2500 rpms.

Maybe finally Dan will get to use his car without worrying about the plugs getting fouled. Here is a picture of the car last night before we pulled the motor out. We had to jack the body up a few inches off the frame for clearance, but we have pulled this motor so many times we are getting good at it ! :rolleyes:

Hope the 3rd time is the charm.

Don

http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x...pspjnpxn6s.jpg

Old Iron 07-29-2015 10:06 AM

I was lookin for a zipper some where [ddd
Sounds like you made a good choice on changing builders :cool:

BlueNorther 07-30-2015 12:03 AM

if it's pumping oil in only some of the cylinders, it sounds like some of the top or second rings were installed upside down. this will cause oil be scraped off the walls to be pushed upwards instead of down into the crankcase.

donsrods 07-30-2015 06:26 AM

Anything is possible, I guess, but we were so careful when we assembled the second engine, especially after the problems with the first motor. One possibility is that the ring gap is too big. The engine guy we had machine it said to set up the ring gap at .006 per inch of bore, and that seemed a little excessive to us, but we didn't want to break any more rings, so we did it.

It will be interesting to see what the new shop finds when they tear down the short block.

Don

BlueNorther 07-31-2015 12:29 AM

yeah, .006" seems loose. I used to shoot for .004" per inch of bore. but I'm not sure the extra .008 to .010" of ring gap would cause the degree of fouling you saw.

Did you stagger the gaps around the bore so that no gaps lined up with each other?

donsrods 07-31-2015 07:28 AM

Yep, we took more time assembling this motor than any other we have ever done. My two Sons were there with me when we put it together so that we had three sets of eyes on every step of the process and we double checked to make sure the rings were all gapped perfectly (I even bought a ring grinder just for that job) and that the rings were turned the right way, according to the pictures in the ring packaging. Even the pistons are brand new forged Seal Power pistons and the whole thing has been balanced.

On the first motor, we were getting some oil seepage from the intake ports, so we had the tripower intake angle machined to fit, but we were still getting seepage, even using Mr Gasket gaskets supplied by Mondello. So my Son sprung for a $600 two four intake manifold so that there was no question the fit was right at the intake gaskets. After that, there was no more seepage there.

This whole Olds engine thing has been a mystery. My Sons and I have built a lot of motors, including ones we are currently running in our other cars, and they seal up fine. If anything, a big old Olds 455 should be a cinch to rebuild as they are a lot of heavy cast iron and run for hundreds of thousands of miles in regular full size Olds cars.

I called the new guy yesterday during lunch and basically told him to start from scratch and remachine whatever needs done to make it right this time. He said "That is the only way I do them, so it will seal up for sure this time." I sure hope so.

Don

bruno 07-31-2015 08:43 AM

Maybe the 4th time will be charm:) Good luck, I hope everything turns out right this time.

Old Iron 07-31-2015 10:25 AM

Not questioning your engine building ability here.
Just a question that enters my feeble little mind.
Are you using regular motor oil to break these engines in or are you putting synthetic in, to start with.
Rings will have a hard time seating, if at all, with synthetic oils.

donsrods 08-01-2015 12:46 AM

No, for break in we have been using Rotella Triple Protection with a can of Lucas Break In additive for the zinc.

Today we dropped off the engine and picked up the finished heads. He did a great job on them, they look like new. We basically told him to do whatever it takes to do this engine right and we feel pretty good that it will be done right this time.

Don

440Clark 08-02-2015 07:10 PM

ring compressor?
 
What are you using for a ring compressor?


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