Cars Without Titles

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donsrods

Well-known member
Joined
May 11, 2007
Messages
10,476
Location
fort myers florida
We've had these discussions before on other forums, where some guy wants to go pickup a car that he feels has been abandoned. Lots of people told him to just go ahead and do it, but there is a downside to doing that. Here is a story I copied from another forum about what can happen:



Just a story I heard about some months ago (and it's true),,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, A young fellow bought this abandoned car from a farmer without any papers. He spent about $20,000 on it and was nearly finished. He decided to trace the former owners to find out if he could get the papers for it. It turned out that the owner had died but his son was living several hours away. He phoned the son and the guy seemed very inclined to get the car signed over to the kid as his dad had abandoned the car years before. The kid offered to come over and get the transfers done but the guy said to wait as he was passing by his area the next week.
The following weekend this truck with a trailer and the police showed up at his house and he was told that he must give up possesion of the car as the guys son was the legal owner of it by the police. As the poor kid watched the guy drive his car onto the trailer the cop said, "we have never met such a *******, sorry about this". They all got in their cars and drove off with his 2yr old project dream car on this guys trailer.

If this doesn't give us all a cold shiver up our spines i don't know what will. I believe I would've gone to his house and burned it to the ground.

(end of quote)



In the eyes of the law, every car has an owner. That is why there are titles, just like the deed you get to a house or property. It would be like me building a home on some lot that I felt no one was doing anything with. Later on, the real owner of the lot could get the lot AND MY HOUSE.

Most times, you get lucky with these abandoned cars, but every once in a while it will bite you in the wallet.

Don
 
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That would have to make your blood boil :eek: :mad:.
Hard to believe someone would actually take the car back, wait second that, I guess not.

Jeff
 
I'll admit I've taken a chance on buying a few cars without paper on them over the years, and been lucky getting the paper later. But I always got it titled prior to starting the project.

Just too much time and money invested in a project to take a chance..... better to lose tha car BEFORE you stick the new motor in it.
 
Wow Don, that story could happen to any number of rodders. What a shock of reality to hear what could happen. The only recourse that I could see for the poor jerk that got the shaft there would be a lawsuit for the rebuild expenses. Even then, the attorney 's fees would be expensive and he still is in the wrong according to the law and would probably lose in court. All I can say is..............

 
".....The only recourse that I could see for the poor jerk that got the shaft there would be a lawsuit for the rebuild expenses........"


He wouldn't have a leg to stand on. In the eyes of the law he didn't own the car and technically could even have been charged possesion of stolen property.

Kind of reminds me of what happened to a neighbor I had in St Louis back around 1971 (didn't really know him too well but seemed like a nice guy.

He had been working on a 64 Chevy 2 DR HT he had picked up (it was not that old of car back then but would have made a nice driver). There had been some body damage and he had replaced a door and fender and it was about ready for paint. He was very open about it..... working and storing the car in the drive way. One day a bunch of cops show up and he's hauled off and latter a tow truck shows up tows the 64 away.

He was back the next day and I went down and talked to him. One of those deals, he had bought the car and the guy "couldn't find the title" but would get it. Turns out the car was stolen and the guy he had bought it from had bought it from someone else. He was pi##ed but glad not to be in jail anymore. He had been told his only recourse would be to sue the guy he had bought it from. He might win the cost of the car back....but he was at fault for putting any money into a car he didn't own.
 
Yea, I agree Mike P. The Guy does not have a leg to stand on. I was just saying that's the only thing he could possibly try legally. He was wrong for fixing up the car without the title.
 
registration services are your friend...repeat after me...

actually the story says he "bought" the car from a farmer, he could have taken the fella to court with the farmer to testify the car was abadoned on his property, produced receipts of the work done, ect...to say he had no leg to stand on isn't really true, the son would have to prove the car wasn't abadoned or sold to the farmer

regardless, progress pictures and registration services are your friend....
 
Nice thought but I respectfully submit that you have reversed where the burden of proof lies, at least from a legal standpoint. The titled owner already has his documentation. It would be the farmer and/or the buyer of the car that would have to prove the car was abandoned. And as far as the law is concerned, the transaction was illegal without a title to begin with. If the farmer felt that the car was abandoned, legally he should have filed a claim and obtained a title before releasing the car to a third party. If he did not do so, there is no legal leg to stand on for anybody but the titled owner and/or his legal representative.
 
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I've bounced around all over the country over the years and bought and sold cars in several states. The issue of who holds the title owns the car is pretty cut an dried.

One other point is when you get a title actually make sure it is correct. I've run into this more han once over the years.

77 Cobra II......incorrect VIN on title (took about 3 months to get that straight and required a title search to determine where DMV had made the mistake)

37 Dodge....Incorrect VIN same as above and incuded a physical inspection of the vehicle by the state police.

57 Dodge....The "VIN" they used was actually the eninge serial number might have gotten by with that except an engine swap was in the cars future.

73 Vega....I converted this from a wagon to a pickup. I did this one when I was living in Ill....and back then truck plates were different than car plates so I had to go in for a corrected title showing it as a truck that paperwork took about 6 months.

In a lot of cases we get the title, do a title transfer, get plates and regestration, get insurance and start driving. Depending on the state an inspection to insure the VIN matches the title is not required or done.

In a worse case senerio say you stopped by a cop who decides to run the VIN (I've had this happen a couple of times and it is far more likely on a modified vehicle). If the VIN does not match the registration (which was based on the VIN appearing on the title) he could arrest you and impound the car. While your getting the paperwork straightened out the car is still sitting in the impound yard racking up fees.
 
Guy's, there's a quick easy solution to all this mystery. From the early sixties, I've bought 20's 30's and 40's without titles using this method. Oldschool opened the door, but didn't go into details. 1st, call the DMV, Registry, or whatever your state calls it and ask them to run the VIN numbers. If it doesn't come back to the man that you're dealing with, then he doesn't own it and legally can't sell it. If it belonged to Grandma and she died and left it on his property, he has to apply for title transfer. If he bought the property with the car on it, he has to apply for abandoned car ownership transfer. In either case, he's gonna sit on his butt while you do all the leg work for him. If he agrees to it, then you can lay down a percentage of the selling price, and any fees that you pay for titles and past taxes will be deducted from the total selling price. (Get a receipt with details and total selling price.) This way you get the car legally for the selling price. If he sells it out from under you, while you're out and about. then you can sue him BIG TIME. It's called Selling with Intent to Defraud. If he doesn't pay up, then put an Unpaid Debt Lean on his house and property. He can't sell anything until he pays you. You may "Tie Up" the percentage money, but you won't loose a dime.
 
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I saw an ad for a 55' Chevy Gasser. Went to the guys house. Car looked good, needed work but he was only asking $6k. Then the bomb fell. He wasn't the owner. His brother owned the car but he had left the state due to the fact that he was wanted by the law. I decided to let that deal pass.
 
registration services are your friend...repeat after me...

actually the story says he "bought" the car from a farmer, he could have taken the fella to court with the farmer to testify the car was abadoned on his property, produced receipts of the work done, ect...to say he had no leg to stand on isn't really true, the son would have to prove the car wasn't abadoned or sold to the farmer

regardless, progress pictures and registration services are your friend....
I would say the farmer had no right to sell the car unless he had gone to court and placed a lien on it. Then he could apply for a lost title. I believe he would have a cause of action against the farmer. Mechanics do it all the time with "abandoned" cars.
 
Not only should you get a title with a car, you should check for the "hidden" vin to make sure it matches with the exposed vin. Classic car auction, police came in and did a vin check. A restored 60' Corvette was found to be stolen. The car had been stolen 20 yrs before. All the subsequent owners had restored the car to concours condition. The original owner got the car back, better then when it was stolen.
I'm still wanting to get my 67' Bug and 69' C30 back in better condition :D
 
these threads always make me a little weary, there are loopholes, pointing out the loopholes on every website you can always makes me worry a bit.

a good registration service is your friend, isn't much i can't have plates/tags by 5pm next day...... spend the extra couple bucks and have a registration service work for you, i typically pay $100 to $200 a car
 
these threads always make me a little weary, there are loopholes, pointing out the loopholes on every website you can always makes me worry a bit.

a good registration service is your friend, isn't much i can't have plates/tags by 5pm next day...... spend the extra couple bucks and have a registration service work for you, i typically pay $100 to $200 a car


Are you saying that you purchase a vehicle with NO title, and can have plates/tags for it the next day? Registration service or not, that may eventually end up biting you in the rear. It is still illegal to buy or sell a car without a title. and if some owner shows up wih a title, such as in the subject of this story, you just lost your car, and have technically committed a crime. Even after you use a registration service, this could happen if you obtained a car without a title. Just because a vehicle has not been registered for years or has not been reported stolen according to the vin, does not mean that someone is not holding a title for it somwhere. I have seen this situation first hand on multiple occasions. I'm not making this stuff up.

I'm not preaching wrong and right here. I'm just telling you what can happen.
 

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