I'm sorta stumped.....

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Bamamav

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 29, 2012
Messages
6,171
Location
Berry, Alabama
5.0 roller cam engine, had a HO fuel injection manifold and TFI distributor. Swapped to a 74 points distributor, Edelbrock Performer 289 intake with a 600 cfm Summit 4bbl carb. I was under the assumption that all roller cam motors used the 351 firing order, but have just found out apparently they don't. There were a few used in Lincoln Town Cars, Crown Vics, and Mercury Grand Marquis that used the old 289-302 firing order.

I have been trying to fire off the Lincoln all afternoon, no luck. I can make it spit out the carb or the exhaust or both, but not run. I tried the old firing order once, but must have had #1 off, it never fired. Pulling hair here!

Went back just now and looked at old dist cap and wires, sure enough I marked it before I pulled it, and IT DOES USE THE OLD 289-302 FIRING ORDER! Gonna try to rewire it again using the old order tomorrow or Monday and try it again.

I was told when we got the truck that I took the engine out of that it came from a Mustang, well, maybe the FI did, but now I'm thinking the long block came from a Town Car or Crown Vic. I love my Fords, but they sure did some weird $hit sometimes!

If going to the old firing order doesn't work, I'm totally stumped on this one.
 
Not sure on the firing order. I do know that if you are running a roller cam you have to change the drive gear on the distributor or it will wear out .
 
This damn thing is kicking my a$$.:mad: I've never had this much problem getting one started. :mad::mad::mad:

I have:

1. Used roller firing order
2.Advanced/retarded firing
3. Moved plug wires one hole each way and repeated #2

4. used old 302 firing order
5. same as #2
6. same as #3

No matter what I try, I still get it popping out the carb, sometimes in the exhaust, sometimes both. It never fires more than once or twice.

I have checked when intake on #1 closes, waited for timing mark to come up, set rotor to fire just before TDC and right at it. Changed the firing order so many times I'm afraid I'm going to wear out the dist cap. I have 12 volts at coil with ignition wire from switch and a wire from I terminal on solenoid. Points are firing as far as I know, I still need to put a plug in a wire and let the wife turn it over while I watch for spark. It has gas, see it in sight windows on carb, squirts when you mash it.

What the hell am I missing?

It's got to be something simple I'm overlooking. May be my distributor shaft is worn out not letting points open all the time, I dunno. About ready to chunk the distributor and get one of those hideous GM style HEI's.:eek:

Somebody help me before I lose what little hair I have left!
 
Have you checked point gap? May need a condenser?[S Is there a resistor in line before the positive terminal on coil? If so try jumping it . If it is a 6 volt coil and it has been run without a resistor the coil may be on it's way out. Hope some of this may help.
 
Points and condenser are new, coil is used but was taken off a running 8N tractor that was 12 volt, using the resistor that was on it also. I also have a full 12 volts coming from the I terminal of the solenoid while cranking.

I have spark, at least sometimes I know I do because it will fire out the exhaust as if it's firing too late, and other times it spits out the carb as if it's firing too early, sometimes it does both. I'm still thinking the firing order is off somehow, but how, I can't figure. I'm going to pull the other valve cover in the morning and see if I can tell which cylinder should be next, 3 or 5, which should confirm the firing order.

Oh, the cap is wired counter clockwise like the diagrams I have. I mistakenly wired a 460 clockwise once, didn't take but a jiffy to figure out what I had done. This 302 has me baffled though.

Thanks for the thoughts!
 
Iron, this engine was in my late son's pickup, it was running when the trans went out and he parked it, about 12 years ago. It was EFI, I changed it to a carb and points distributor.

Going to check TDC again tomorrow and rewire it to old 302 pattern. I'm 99% sure it's going to be the old pattern as I have the cap I pulled off the EFI distributor and I numbered the wires before I pulled them, they check to be the old pattern. Maybe I'm using the wrong timing mark on the balancer, only thing I haven't rechecked.
 
Bama, more food for thought. I went through this very same thing for a few weeks this spring on my flathead. It turned out to be my new carbon spark plug wires. They wouldn't send the spark all that way to the correct plug all the time, just sometimes. I have round rubber grommets that the sparkplug wires go through to keep them tidy and when the wires were hugging each other they would sometimes share the spark, and fire out the carb. I caught on to this leaking electricity when I grabbed the wires once in the middle and got a shock. I fixed it by putting my 70 year old steel wires back on.
 
probably another stupid comment, but on those fords, can you drop in the dizzy with the shaft turned 180 degrees? done that on chryslers before...it will spit you in the face then... :rolleyes:
 
I give up.:( Went out this morning, double checked timing, firing order, reset points, bypassed resistor, no fire.:mad: Points will fire when manually breaking them, but engine won't even backfire now. As I was resetting the points, I noticed the breaker plate has a LOT of up and down movement, way more than it should. It would move so much it would close the points, push it down and the gap would be right. I think the distributor is just plain worn out, probably needs building.

Fixing to go look on eBay for a small cap HEI. Wanted to go old school, but it ain't working out. Could probably buy a new ponts dizzy, but if I'm going to spend money I might as well go modern.
 
Nothing new to report. FedEx is dragging their feet, distributor was supposed to be here yesterday, no, they send it to their distribution center in Ellenwood [Atlanta] GA, doubt it comes today, either. Won't take long to swap it out, but it's looking like I'm not gonna make my buddys show in it Sat, don't think I'll have enough time to get it running and tested and cleaned up in time.:(:(:(

Kennyc, I could have just put a Pertronix in, but I figured as worn as the distributor is it might not work anyway. I got a small cap HEI off of eBay for $50, it's a Chinese knockoff I'm sure, so maybe it will be OK. Even if I have to change the module I'm in for less than $100.
 
Well, it runs. Sort of. :rolleyes: Will not run below 2000 rpm, period. It's running lean, I put the choke on 3/4 way and it will sit there all day and run 2000 rpm or better, dies as soon as you try to take the choke off. I took the top off the carb, ran a stiff wire through the jets, no difference in running. Acts like maybe the idle circuit is clogged. Bowl was clean, no trash to be seen. [S Beginning to think the new carb is junk. I doubt Summit would do anything because it only had a years warranty, and I've had it nearly two years now. May just order a kit for it and try that, don't know.

I also checked fuel delivery, it's fine, carb stays halfway on the sight glass, flows good with line disconnected. Also ran a straight hot wire to battery to make sure I wasn't losing connection at the switch, didn't affect it. So, everything is pointing to the carb.

And to add insult to injury, it's leaking coolant somewhere in the front of the motor. Still not sure where it's coming from, all new rubber hoses, could be waterpump I guess, but it's dripping off the ps side head. I'm afraid it may be a head gasket.

So, right now, I'm pretty well disappointed. :(:( Still haven't gotten it running slow enough to try the transmission yet, so still in doubt about it. The way my luck with it is going, it'll probably be bad too.:(

So, I'm walking away from it for a while. May look for a running and driving Explorer or Crown Vic that I can drive before I part it out. I've about had it with this pos.:(:(:(:(:(:(:(
 
i didn't read the whole thread as i can't see it very well this morn, left my glasses at work. the 5.0 ho has two different firing orders the old 289/302 and the 351 so depending on the cam in that motor it could be either. i always set float level at where the fuel just barley comes out the hole, i never use the plastic lens.
 
All the symptoms tell me you have a vacuum leak.
Intake manifold gaskets, carb base gaskets, a vacuum line unplugged, a bad vacuum modulator or something you're overlooking.
 

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