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  #211  
Old 05-21-2018, 08:53 PM
bob w bob w is offline
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Excellent floor work Dr. C. My old sheet metal shop teacher would give it 96 out of a 100.
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  #212  
Old 05-22-2018, 06:29 PM
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Thanks, bob.

Shop classes kept me in school... without them, I'd be living under a bridge in a cardboard box.

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  #213  
Old 05-23-2018, 11:00 AM
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MercuryMac MercuryMac is offline
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Dr. C., I'm going to argue with you on 'how high on the hog you live depends on your schooling' theory. You listened to your teachers and believed them far too much. Teachers want you to think that a big education is the answer to success.
There are lots of ways to be successful without staying in academia for a third or more of your life. A big education is an asset to you, but there are many other assets that you can acquire that are just as good. One example is, if you bought or built a business, you could hire some of the people that have the big education to do the work for you.
Anyhow, you wouldn't be living in a box under a bridge, period.
Sorry for the rant, Dr. C.
I, too, enjoyed shop class a lot.
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  #214  
Old 05-23-2018, 11:56 AM
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smallfoot smallfoot is offline
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I agree wholeheartedly with Mac!...
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  #215  
Old 05-23-2018, 01:05 PM
bob w bob w is offline
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Now that the thread has been pirated, I'll mention that I went to college to be a shop teacher. That was after flunking out of engineering school with flying colors. Actually I don't remember much of college, there was beer involved. Never taught a minute of school. Went into manufacturing instead. Started at the bottom and figured out that if I worked hard and long and did the best job I could, I could get ahead.
Over the years I made 2-3 times more money than other employees that started at the same level.
College got me in the door but it was other qualities that contribute to success.
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  #216  
Old 05-23-2018, 03:49 PM
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Torchie Torchie is offline
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OK.
Here my world view of higher education.
I never went to college. I was the only one in my family for 2 generations that didn't. I did go to Culinary art school as I felt that at that time some sort of Bona Fide was needed.
Worked mostly for my self and when the time came that I could no longer "Chef" i tried to get a job with the local health Dept as a Food service inspector. Even though at that point I had about 30 years experience in a kitchen I could not get hired because I had no college degree. It wouldn't have mattered what the degree was in. It just had to be a degree. My last Food inspector was one of my customers that had a degree in Nuclear Engineering that had been laid of from the local Nuke plant due to it being decommissioned.
I made sure that both my daughters got their degrees weather they used them or not. One does and one doesn't. But as bob said. Their work ethic is what keeps them moving ahead.
And Band kept me in school......
Now back to our regular programing.
Torchie
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  #217  
Old 05-23-2018, 09:54 PM
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Well this thread took an interesting turn I love these insights into the personalities of my heroes.
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  #218  
Old 05-23-2018, 10:46 PM
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Easy, fellas! I was only saying, without shop classes, I wasn't likely to appear, much less complete my high school courses!

I'm a practical learner. Put my hands on the subject and I'll understand the science in short order. Put my butt in a classroom with the same science, I'll fall asleep and retain very little...

I believe I was born a generation late. I was taught, "An honest day's work for an honest day's pay." I was also taught, "You don't get anything you don't work for." I've lived by those words, spent a year in technical school and eventually, found my place in manufacturing. (Is there an echo in here?)

I spent 15 years in manufacturing. I worked hard, made a good living, earned a reputation, surpassed many and thought I'd retire from a management position. I was wrong. The company's owners had grown old, retired and sold out to a corporation. The corporation was chock full of "educated" people who ran the manufacturing company into the ground. No practical experience or knowledge required... if you have a degree, you're instantly more qualified for any position than a person with years of practical knowledge and experience in the field. (Brilliant strategy, I have to say.)

Hindsight is 20/20. I didn't see, nor did I anticipate a red-hot poker in the rear... view... mirror.

Join us next week for corrugated living under a bridge. We have no experience, but we'll tell you how to to do it. (We read the book.)

.
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  #219  
Old 05-23-2018, 11:18 PM
bob w bob w is offline
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I believe businesses are far more "degree centric" than when I started. However, when I was hired I was told I could never be an engineer because I didn't have an engineering degree. I started as a chemical engineer's donkey. Through the years I did every job I was asked to do, took every transfer and eventually became manager of mechanical and electrical engineering. Oh the irony of it all; not qualified to be a junior engineer but qualified to run the whole shooting match.

Over the protestations of upper management I promoted a draftsman to senior mechanical engineer (no degree) and an electrical tech to senior electrical engineer (no degree) because nobody could do the jobs better than they could. In the end it's performance that counts.

I worked for 35 years for one company and retired when I wanted to. That was 22 years ago. Something I doubt can be done in today's volatile business world.

I have friends with "raw deal" experiences like yours, Dr C. It's a shame.

Last edited by bob w; 05-23-2018 at 11:30 PM.
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  #220  
Old 05-24-2018, 03:26 AM
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smallfoot smallfoot is offline
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I had a chance at a degree. My Pop was glad to pay for school and he felt like a young man needed a degree to really get ahead. After a year in college, I told him it was a waste of money. I was not doing anything but partying and chasing women. I went to work for Ma Bell. No degree. Worked a physical job. Outdoors mostly. Another plus. A trouble shooter. Another plus. Spent 30 years there. Had opportunities to go to management but refused. Made decent money and retired at 52. I've been retired now for 15 years. I might have set my sights lower than some but have what I need. Wise use of what I made left me pretty well for this old age stuff. Don't know how young people can do it today. I don't think any job has any kind of long range guarantees anymore. Ma Bell was a god choice for a career back then, but they also went corporate. About that time is when all of us old guys started looking for the door.
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