"A" '28 '29 Tudor Sedan

I started my Model A Sedan build in October '13, and will play catch-up to it's current state.

This is my first time doing any sort of build like this. I'm a "Jeep Guy" and have built a few. I got the Rat Rod bug a few years ago, and I'm excited to get started! Most aspects of the build will develop as the build happens, and what parts I find.

Here are a few of the things I decided on for sure:

Custom Frame - I'm thinking 2X4 3/16"
Air Bags front and rear
6" Chop


Here's what I got!





Being the new guy, any and all recommendations, advice, and criticism are much appreciated!

Cleaned all the pine cones/soil out of it to get a better look...not bad!

Before:


After:


Picked up a cowl.


I wanted to give the body support. Welded in some temporary support. Not sure if its needed or not, but makes me feel a little better before cutting it up!


I added 1x1 in place of the wood, just below the roof and across the top of the door.



I also put some across the top of the windshield.


I started removing the subfloor. I was very systematic about the process, removing one at a time and replacing with new structure as I went. I'm having a blast with this build!

Picked up a complete Ford 8.8 out of a '99 Explorer. It has disc brakes, 31 spline shafts, 3.73's, and a limited slip. Came with the drive shaft as well. I think it will work well for this car.




4x2x3/16" for the frame. 19" Z on the rear, and a 10" sweep up front. I have the frame rails tacked up. I'm planning on using 1 or both frame rails as my air tank/s. I've decided to bag the front as well. Not sure how much of the frame I'll need for air.

I Researched a ton on front suspensions! I was set on a spring-behind, 4" drop tube axle. Here is the one I'm considering. Not a big fan of the "27" radius rods", but figured I could always modify them if I want to. When it came down to it I ended up using a factory model A axle, with '37-'41 Ford spindles from speedway, and disc brakes. I'll be splitting the factory bones.

Welcome, looks like you got a nice project there and a good start already. I'll be waiting for more progress pics. [P

-Chris

Some of the body work I've done:

The gas cap was banged up on the cowl I purchased, so I decided to smooth it.


Frenched in the plate


Welded the body seams
Before:


After:



I got the rear axle tacked in place. Time to start the 4 link. I'll be using 1.75x120 DOM



Got the crossmember done.

15 cuts


Welded and ground.


Lower control arm brackets tacked in.

1952B3b23 said:

Welcome, looks like you got a nice project there and a good start already. I'll be waiting for more progress pics. [P

-Chris

Click to expand...

Thank you. Pics are being uploaded as we speak...lots more! The last photos were from around mid December.

Got the bones mounted.

I made some bungs out of 1.75" DOM.


Welded and ground.



I have a steering box/column from what I believe is from a 40's/50's GM pick up. Hope it works the way I want.

Made a mount, and welded it to the frame.



Box Mounted




Shortened the column


I'm planning on leaving the steering alone for now until I test drive it. I'm a little skeptical of the current set-up, but if it passes the driving test, I'll leave it. If not I have a few different options I can play with to hopefully dial it in.

Got most of my 4 link set-up. I think it seems to work well! I guess the true test is to drive it. I lowered the crossmember hoop, quite a bit from the earlier photos. The metal for the arms is just for mock-up.

The basic design of the rear suspension is done. I have some minor tweaks before final welding.

Layed out!


Ride height


Decided to go with a set of Firestone rolling sleeve bags for the front. I will have to run a shock as well with this set-up. I want to keep it somewhat clean with a bag and a shock, so this is what I came up with. I wonder how the wishbone will hold up with a design like this!

I pie cut the frame and bent it inboard to make room for the bags


Made some brackets for the bones







I've been trying to decide what I wanted to do to locate the front end. Was planning on running a panhard from the frame to the bone just rearward of the bag bracket. As I mentioned earlier, I'm slightly skeptical on the strength of the arms. I feel a panhard mounted I the arm behind the bag bracket may add too much stress! I seriously considering a Watts Linkage, with the main pivot on the frame crossmember. I've been researching it, and it sems like a good option for this car.

I'm also considering friction shocks up front as well. Again, I'm researching as much as I can on those as well. Anybody have experience with either?

I made some gussets for the link brackets.



I'd like to keep the tie rod, radiator/grille behind the axle, not sure if I'll be able to, especially running a Watts Linkage. Space is getting tight. If a Watts is feasible, It's the way I'll go! I've decided I need all the components to go any further with the design. Engine is getting close!

For the sake of continuing the build, I made a temporary panhard bar for the front axle.


I decided to fish plate the rear Z. The outside of the frame will be done once the body is removed!


Started on the rear portion of the floor.


Tied the battery box into the floor. I will sheet it in, and make it accessible from behind the passenger seat.

CURRENT STATE, as of Feb 6, 2014

Got some rubber...It's a roller! All the photos are at about ride height. Unfortunately the engine is not the one I'll be using!



With all the new snow, I couldn't resist


Next on the list is to complete the rear structure of the floor, mount gas tank, shocks and bump stops. Still need an engine! Not having one is definitely holding me back a bit!

I'm also considering friction shocks up front as well. Again, I'm researching as much as I can on those as well. Anybody have experience with either?[/QUOTE]

Check with RPM, Ron is one of the vendors on RRR. I believe he makes and sells friction shocks.

Looking great!
You pushed it out for a photo op even with the temps as they were today? Brave man!

I wish I could give insight on the front linkage, but I'm rather new to this process myself. But I can't say I've seen a watts setup on the front before. I'll be following closely!
[P[P[P

this is a great looking build. I like the direction you're going with this. what engine are you thinking about putting in it?

jmlcolorado said:

Looking great!
You pushed it out for a photo op even with the temps as they were today? Brave man! [P[P[P

Click to expand...

Weather up here was much warmer than you were experiencing. I couldn't resist!

kenny c said:

this is a great looking build. I like the direction you're going with this. what engine are you thinking about putting in it?

Click to expand...

Thanks,

Not sure on the engine yet! I have a buddy with a 460, which he wants to see go in my car. I think it would be pretty sweet! I'm starting to lean towards a 350 or 302 or something smaller. As I had mentioned earlier, I'm skeptical on the strength of the bones. A 460 weighs in at 720#'s. Also space is getting tight at the front axle the 460 is 34". I guess it really depends on what I find for a good deal!

I haven't had much time for the car, and won't for another week or so. Lots going on at work! Hopefully I'll be able to hit it hard towards the end of February!

"""""" skeptical on the strength of the bones.""""" ????

It all looks plenty strong and well thought out Hoovail ...I can share your concern about weight but that thing would look good with a Briggs and Stratton .... even thou I am partial to SBC anytime I see something out of the box in these rods it sets it apart ....... I have a flathead V-8 ready for my next build,,

OddRodsGarage said:

"""""" skeptical on the strength of the bones.""""" ????

Click to expand...

I had the same thought... My gut says you are going to put alot of torsional stress into the bones with how that bracket drops and only hooks around the outside...

I am not super familiar with bones.. how thick is the wall on those??

I agree with you (Hoovail) and CORPO, i also question the strength of the bones. It looks like the bag mounts you have hooked around the outside are around 6 inches long maybe more? Like was said before, thats a large "lever arm" that will create a lot of torsioanl stress on them. Maybe you need to re-engineer that setup?

Good Luck and the build is looking great!

-Chris

Thank you all for the input! It's great to get other views on certain things.

I'm definitely considering redesigning it. Whether its relocating the brackets, full custom arms, strengthened arms, etc... I'm can't decide if simply raising the bracket on the arm would minimize the torsional stress enough to be effective.[S

This also made me consider the 11/16" heims I'm currently using on the bones. I may upgrade to 3/4"'s. I have zero experience with either.

Hoovail said:

I'm definitely considering redesigning it. Whether its relocating the brackets, full custom arms, strengthened arms, etc... I'm can't decide if simply raising the bracket on the arm would minimize the torsional stress enough to be effective.[S

Click to expand...

Raising the bracket on the arm would increase torsional (rotational) stress. When applying a force in a vertical direction offset from the arm... the further up or down you are from the arm the more you are just putting a vertical force on it. If you raised it up to say.... the same level as the arm you would maximize your torsional stress. Your design actually decreases the torsional stress for a spring (bag) that is not located in a vertical plane with the arm. Lowering it would actually make the torsional stress less.

The further away from the bar you are horizontally... the more torsional stress. Vertically is the opposite.

I know it is counter-intuitive... but does that make sense?

If you have room for a link from one arm to the other... you could use that as a structure to mount the bags if you were really concerned with torsional stress. It would have to be jointed at both ends (on the bottom of the arms to eliminate torsional stress on the arms)... to allow independent suspension travel.

It would be interesting... although unorthodox and probably make many people question you. I'm not sure I fully like the idea... but in theory it should work... at least in my head.