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lazarat

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 7, 2018
Messages
657
....well maybe the error was getting this big block in the first place, but anybody out there can tell me what the X is going on?

First off, this Ventura I picked up with the 72 Grand Prix 455, has probably been through the course, kid had it since high school. Way too much power, looks like a lot of bucks were put into it.

I took it 30 miles to a hang out car meet when I finally got it running and legal, was running on the hot side, hit 220. (Car has electric fan attached to radiator, ordered a JEGs shroud, on way) When I checked the fresh oil, it was a half a quart low. On the way back, it was a much cooler night, in the upper 40's, car hot again. Next day, oil now a quart low. The kid says it was always running hot, well thats because beside no shroud, he also had a 160 thermostat when it calls for a 195. Not good in Florida, he says he was always careful.[S Also the timing was a little too advanced.

So now, the past couple days, I am not seeing smoke, not seeing leaks, no oil in coolant or vice versa. Using half a quart in a 20 mile run. I open it up a couple times when I do this, but only for a few seconds.

Some say its a PCV issue, I have breathers on both valve covers, PCV in valley under intake, seems clean. Soot in exhaust appears normal, plugs not fouling.

Also, its got a valve issue thats noisy when cold, quiets down when warm, but I looked under the valve covers, saw these: (see Pic), not adjustable.

So what does you guys think is going on? I would think I would be seeing billows and lakes at this oil usage.
 

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This is a tough one. I'd start with dip stick, make sure inserts the same each check. Also, how about do compression test. All info can help.
 
....well maybe the error was getting this big block in the first place, but anybody out there can tell me what the X is going on?

First off, this Ventura I picked up with the 72 Grand Prix 455, has probably been through the course, kid had it since high school. Way too much power, looks like a lot of bucks were put into it.

I took it 30 miles to a hang out car meet when I finally got it running and legal, was running on the hot side, hit 220. (Car has electric fan attached to radiator, ordered a JEGs shroud, on way) When I checked the fresh oil, it was a half a quart low. On the way back, it was a much cooler night, in the upper 40's, car hot again. Next day, oil now a quart low. The kid says it was always running hot, well thats because beside no shroud, he also had a 160 thermostat when it calls for a 195. Not good in Florida, he says he was always careful.[S Also the timing was a little too advanced.

So now, the past couple days, I am not seeing smoke, not seeing leaks, no oil in coolant or vice versa. Using half a quart in a 20 mile run. I open it up a couple times when I do this, but only for a few seconds.

Some say its a PCV issue, I have breathers on both valve covers, PCV in valley under intake, seems clean. Soot in exhaust appears normal, plugs not fouling.

Also, its got a valve issue thats noisy when cold, quiets down when warm, but I looked under the valve covers, saw these: (see Pic), not adjustable.

So what does you guys think is going on? I would think I would be seeing billows and lakes at this oil usage.

1. Nothing wrong with running a 160 thermostat when stock it would have had a 195. I put a 195 back in mine (stock) when I first built my truck, then changed it to a 160. It runs better and is happier and the cooling system is adequate to keep it cool to that range. If it's consistently running that high above the thermostat temp, the cooling system isn't adequate to keep it cool. Sometimes the water pump impellers see wear, but I suggest starting with a cooling system flush (can make a huge difference), at fairly low cost. Buy the flush from a parts store and go that route. My 455 Buick runs at 165 with an electric fan and a puller flex fan with no shroud on either on all but the hottest days.

I looked back at the photos from when you first bought it and see that upper rad hose is super long. Is there a spring in it, and/or is the hose soft? I wonder if the hose is collapsing.

2. Some of the BOP engines have some issues with oil hanging up in the top end, which can result in it drooling out of the breathers. It can be harder to notice as you'll then burn it off on the exhaust manifolds. I'm not familiar with the Pontiacs, but I know this is an issue on some BOP engines so you might want to start there. If I run my Buick hard, it uses oil out of the breather quite significantly.

3. Is there any chance you're filling the pan under the flex plate with oil from the rear main? Been there, done that.

4. Is the dipstick right for the engine? My Buick is quite finicky with oil level, and if overfilled basically pukes it out. It also has to be cold (sitting basically overnight) and level for the oil level to read correctly. This is because of oil hanging in the top end.

5. What weight oil did you use? My 455 Buick wasn't happy with 10/30, it works very well with 20/50. The oiling system of the Buick is different though, and the front and rear main are rope seals (so the thinner oil pushes past them easier). Just some thoughts.
 
1. Nothing wrong with running a 160 thermostat when stock it would have had a 195. I put a 195 back in mine (stock) when I first built my truck, then changed it to a 160. It runs better and is happier and the cooling system is adequate to keep it cool to that range. If it's consistently running that high above the thermostat temp, the cooling system isn't adequate to keep it cool. Sometimes the water pump impellers see wear, but I suggest starting with a cooling system flush (can make a huge difference), at fairly low cost. Buy the flush from a parts store and go that route. My 455 Buick runs at 165 with an electric fan and a puller flex fan with no shroud on either on all but the hottest days.

I looked back at the photos from when you first bought it and see that upper rad hose is super long. Is there a spring in it, and/or is the hose soft? I wonder if the hose is collapsing.

2. Some of the BOP engines have some issues with oil hanging up in the top end, which can result in it drooling out of the breathers. It can be harder to notice as you'll then burn it off on the exhaust manifolds. I'm not familiar with the Pontiacs, but I know this is an issue on some BOP engines so you might want to start there. If I run my Buick hard, it uses oil out of the breather quite significantly.

3. Is there any chance you're filling the pan under the flex plate with oil from the rear main? Been there, done that.

4. Is the dipstick right for the engine? My Buick is quite finicky with oil level, and if overfilled basically pukes it out. It also has to be cold (sitting basically overnight) and level for the oil level to read correctly. This is because of oil hanging in the top end.

5. What weight oil did you use? My 455 Buick wasn't happy with 10/30, it works very well with 20/50. The oiling system of the Buick is different though, and the front and rear main are rope seals (so the thinner oil pushes past them easier). Just some thoughts.

Thanks for the ideas. There is no flex pan, open flywheel for now, no leaks. I was going to run 20/50, went with 10/40 conventional, should it be synthetic? I don't know the history or buildup of this engine except it is a 72.

I will look up the dipstick, but dont see any blowby anywhere. I took it just now under bats*it overpass over by the cemetry so I wouldnt disturb the neighbors, looked underneath, held it at a decent rpm and backed off...no smoke of any significance if any. My small block in the 53 smokes some because of seals and guides and it uses a lot less oil than this does.

By the way it hardly gets over 210 now but I am hoping the shroud helps further. Has fresh green stuff...and I will check those hoses...and dipstick.
 
Paging Old Iron... Old Iron?

An aftermarket valley pan usually has no baffle for the PCV. You'll pull oil without a baffle, same as PCV through an aftermarket valve cover with no baffle.

I also run a "heavy" oil in my BBC. 15/40 or 20/50. No synthetic.


I can't tell from your fuzzy picture, but your rockers should be adjustable like this... hold the adjustment screw, crack the big jam nut and hold that position... turn the adjustment screw to set lash, hold that position and tighten the jam nut... check lash again, because tightening the jam nut can turn the adjustment screw and vice versa. (It's a two-handed operation and a precise/delicate one. I've done it 500 times at least.)

1130.jpg


.
 
Paging Old Iron... Old Iron?

An aftermarket valley pan usually has no baffle for the PCV. You'll pull oil without a baffle, same as PCV through an aftermarket valve cover with no baffle.

I also run a "heavy" oil in my BBC. 15/40 or 20/50. No synthetic.


I can't tell from your fuzzy picture, but your rockers should be adjustable like this... hold the adjustment screw, crack the big jam nut and hold that position... turn the adjustment screw to set lash, hold that position and tighten the jam nut... check lash again, because tightening the jam nut can turn the adjustment screw and vice versa. (It's a two-handed operation and a precise/delicate one. I've done it 500 times at least.)

1130.jpg


.

Dr. C is right about the valley pan. The first time I installed my intake, I got rid of the stock tin intake gasket with pan that went all the way under the intake. I replaced it with Fel-Pro gaskets. I learned about the PCV valve sucking up oil. I found a company that specializes in Buicks that gave you instructions on how to cut the stock pan to be able to use the better gaskets with the valley pan. Much improved.

Also, no synthetic. Conventional oil only.
 
Ok thanks Doc C I learned about the lash adjustment and quickly quieted the offending valve noise, there is one on the other side not as bad will get to that later.

Thanks also snopro and doc on the PCV issue, not ready to pull the intake yet I am just cufflustered on why it was designed that way in the first place.

Will a valve cover placement help? I noticed the baffle plate inside the valve covers.

There is a youtuber that showed how he eliminated the oil problem on his by eliminating the PCV and leaving two breathers. Ya gotta love youtube.

Now another test drive. The priests next door are probably praying I find a new hobby. this thing is loud.
 
Sorry to be so late to the party.
You received good advise.
If the valve seals are the old style o-ring then, you need to install the bonnet style on both intake and exhaust valves.
The pcv in the valley pan was barely adequate for street use. At higher rpm it would pick up oil which would not create any smoke but, eat oil. Check to make sure it rattles and isn't stuck open.
Worn oil rings will cause it to smoke bad. Yes unhook it the pvc then drive it the 30 miles and check oil again.
Pontiac engines are low rpm torque monsters, 5,500 to 6,000
Good water pumps are a must. 160 to 180 stat is all that's needed (I prefer the 180)
I had a bolt go through a brand new pump and like to of never found the overheating problem on one.
You're lucky to have the Harlan Sharp adjustable rockers.
I'm a straight 30w Valvoline non-synthetic guy in a Poncho
If you are really burning a quart every 20 to 40 miles then it'd be smoking like a mosquito fogger.
Check the oil before starting the engine up cold. Drive it a couple miles then check it again. This will tell you if the oil is draining back to the pan or sitting in the top of the heads.
All of what we are suggesting is just that. We don't know if the cylinders were deglazed before rebuild or anything else about it.
[P[P[P
 
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Sorry to be so late to the party.
You received good advise.

When I adjusted the noisy lifter I checked the flow of oil for a few seconds at idle, not a mess because the heads are a little deeper, flow back is good. It all seems clean. I may compromise and go back to a 180 stat, waiting on shroud to see what happens.

Today I am going to pull the cover on the driver side and dial back a lifter or possibly two. Also going to reroute the PCV

What bothers me a little is that daughter's BF had this car since high school, (2010) which included a lot of showing offs and burnouts, all while as he said, it was running on the hot side. Plus now possible oil consumption?? :confused:

Anyway, his dad was not very happy to see it go, but although he was tinkering, he was surprised to hear it was up and running within a week, and appreciates it is in good hands. All he asked was that he get to drive it.

So! this weekend is the monthly Strawberry cruise, just found out he and wife will be joining me, I will be bringing both of my cars, he can drive that one back to the house :cool:
 
Hydraulic lifters set at 1/2 to 3/4 turn on these engines. (hot or cold)
Pinch the rocker tip over the valve, loosen the poly lock until you can make the rocker click then tighten until it just stops clicking then 1/2 to 3/4 turn tighter is the correct setting.
 
Hydraulic lifters set at 1/2 to 3/4 turn on these engines. (hot or cold)
Pinch the rocker tip over the valve, loosen the poly lock until you can make the rocker click then tighten until it just stops clicking then 1/2 to 3/4 turn tighter is the correct setting.

Got it and will do.

Spent most of today after the very easy PCV reroute trying to find the correct grommet/plug for the valley, the one that was in there was melted butter. Discovered a package with both a standard valve cover breather grommet and a plug, fit perfect, one of each in the Help! department at Advance auto.

Will see how this all goes, shroud should be here tomorrow, Thanx to all
 

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