I like rust...but, what can I do with this?

maddog · Oct 14, 2007

I brought the Topolino into the new shop today.
I set the car down on the clean painted floor and stared at it from every angle for a couple hours. You know the drill.

I am gonna paint it, well primer it I mean. I just dont think this is the car to run patina on it.

What are my options on dealing with the rust?
Wont dipping it make it thinner (its seems thin now) ?
Is it ok to dip it anyway?
If I have it blasted, who does that (southern California) and what should they use to blast it with?
What are the drawbacks to different methods?

Thanks

Tripper · Oct 14, 2007

Patina!

Dog,
I love it just like it is but it you want to deal with the rust issue I'm sure there are several west coasters around to guide you to someone local.

BoB

FlatBroke · Oct 15, 2007

Maddog,
I am more of a "Do it yourself" kinda guy. If it were me, I would go to the local Home Depot or Lowes and get several flapper wheels for my 4 1/2in angle grinder and go to town on that body. From what I have used those flapper wheels on around here, it does not appear to remove very much material at all. Maybe try one panel at a time. When finished with each panel, lay a coat of primer on it, set it out of the way and go to the next one.

That is just me....

All of us here at RRR know how much time you have spent designing this car, I don't think it wil be anything less than "Rollin streetable Art" when you are finished...

Good luck, and keep us posted.

Bonehead · Oct 15, 2007

Love the new shop! All that rust looks like surface rust for the most part. You are right to worry about thinning down the metal. If you are sure you don't want to leave it as is, then start slow with some elbow greese. Steel wool, sand paper, what ever, but before you use an electric sander of any type, just see what you have there first. I might suggest you look into walnut shells as a blast media later though.

35Mastr · Oct 15, 2007

Madddog,I would not dip it,It wont get all the rust out.There are shops that use walnut,aluminum oxide that will strip off that rust and wont damage the metal.I know that some of the more poular shops are in your area.Gasser may know of someone down your way.He should be chiming in soon.Looks good

donsrods · Oct 15, 2007

I've heard that dipping can cause problems down the road when some left over chemicals seep out of cracks and attack your paint. I agree with George that a good blasting with whatever the current hitech method is would be the best. A reputable shop should be able to steer you. DO NOT get it SANDBLASTED. It can warp the metal and workharden it. Sandblasting is for thick stuff, like frames.

Don

cycledog · Oct 15, 2007

MD,
You might want to check into soda blasting. It takes off the junk without affecting the substrate. Don't do the dip thing. You need to save as much metal as you can.

joehalford01 · Oct 15, 2007

i agree on walnut shells if your going to blast.

24dodge · Oct 15, 2007

you can also use a product called ospho ( phosphoric acid), it converts the active rust to black oxide and dosen`t remove any metal , its water thin so it gets in all the cracks no problem , I use a quart spray bottle to apply it , I learned about it when I worked in a ship yard, you should be able to get it at your local hardware store , get a quart and try it on some test pcs. to see if you like it , its about $12 a quart , 2 quarts will do a whole car frame and all , when its dry you can sand it smooth and paint right over it.....24

roddguy · Oct 15, 2007

I don't want to step on anybodies toes here for the advice already given, but I have a little different point of view on dipping. Were I am here in Ontario, Canada I rutienly do resoration work on cars far worse that your Topi. From the look of it in the pics I would say it's a very solid piece, and i wouldn't worry about loosing any thickness. I've done cars that were so bad they needed to be dipped twice and I still had plenty to work with,and when doing butt welding I didn't notice any loss of metal that I'd worry about. In a typical dip you will only lose 5 to 10 thousands of the thickness. Now as far as any chemical left behind. The company that does my dips also uses a clean bath tank. Then everything is pressure washed with a water based oil sollution which will portect the surface for up to 10 days. Once I get it back I use a 300 psi pressure washer and go over it again, very thoroughly. Once I'm satified that I've gotten into every nook and crany, I blow it dry, Take it in the booth and wash it down with metal prep to get rid of any flash rust. Then I spray it with a high quality self etching epoxy primer. It is a lot of work and it has to be done in the same day so plan for a long day. However, I've alway been very happy with the results, and never had a problem with chemical leaching out. Also, once all the body work, and painting is finished I go around, and spray every seam that I can with Rustcheck T32. This is a good creeping oil that will neutralize anything that may be left behind. Nothing beats a nice clean pallet to start from.

Just a side note here. I did a 1973 Super Bee 440 sixpack car. A one of 27 built. The owner just had to save that body, and let me tell you it was rotten. This is the car that got dipped twice, and I was worried, but in the end it was fine. However getting this massive body ready for primer was a hugh job. I hope I never have to do another that big again. It would be like doing 4 of your Topilinos at once.

maddog · Oct 15, 2007

roddguy said:
I don't want to step on anybodies toes here for the advice already given, but I have a little different point of view on dipping. Were I am here in Ontario, Canada I rutienly do resoration work on cars far worse that your Topi. From the look of it in the pics I would say it's a very solid piece, and i wouldn't worry about loosing any thickness. I've done cars that were so bad they needed to be dipped twice and I still had plenty to work with,and when doing butt welding I didn't notice any loss of metal that I'd worry about. In a typical dip you will only lose 5 to 10 thousands of the thickness. Now as far as any chemical left behind. The company that does my dips also uses a clean bath tank. Then everything is pressure washed with a water based oil sollution which will portect the surface for up to 10 days. Once I get it back I use a 300 psi pressure washer and go over it again, very thoroughly. Once I'm satified that I've gotten into every nook and crany, I blow it dry, Take it in the booth and wash it down with metal prep to get rid of any flash rust. Then I spray it with a high quality self etching epoxy primer. It is a lot of work and it has to be done in the same day so plan for a long day. However, I've alway been very happy with the results, and never had a problem with chemical leaching out. Also, once all the body work, and painting is finished I go around, and spray every seam that I can with Rustcheck T32. This is a good creeping oil that will neutralize anything that may be left behind. Nothing beats a nice clean pallet to start from.

Just a side note here. I did a 1973 Super Bee 440 sixpack car. A one of 27 built. The owner just had to save that body, and let me tell you it was rotten. This is the car that got dipped twice, and I was worried, but in the end it was fine. However getting this massive body ready for primer was a hugh job. I hope I never have to do another that big again. It would be like doing 4 of your Topilinos at once.

Interesting.
Exactly what are you dipping in?
Is it done with electricity as well?

thanks

maddog · Oct 15, 2007

24dodge said:
you can also use a product called ospho ( phosphoric acid), it converts the active rust to black oxide and dosen`t remove any metal , its water thin so it gets in all the cracks no problem , I use a quart spray bottle to apply it , I learned about it when I worked in a ship yard, you should be able to get it at your local hardware store , get a quart and try it on some test pcs. to see if you like it , its about $12 a quart , 2 quarts will do a whole car frame and all , when its dry you can sand it smooth and paint right over it.....24

Another interesting option.
I used a product like this for preping some industrial stuff for paint years ago.
It sounds too easy. Thats why I like it.

There must be some drawbacks, what are they?

gassersgarage · Oct 17, 2007

Try contacting these guys to see who they use for media blasting.
www.hotrodsandhobbies.net They painted my 32' 3 window.

As for myself, I just sand to bare metal then use metal prep before I take it to the paint shop. I have a shop shoot the primer and paint.

24dodge · Oct 17, 2007

haven`t had any issues with it so far.....24

24dodge · Oct 17, 2007

just make sure if you spray it on you wear a respirator , and wear gloves , if you have cuts on your hands and it gets on there it will burn like a @%#&!.

maddog · Oct 17, 2007

I have made my decision, at least for now.

I am going to do a couple days of hand work, flapper wheels, wire brushes, sanders, whatever, and blow it clean.

Then I am gonna spray that ospho stuff on every surface I can think how to get it onto. I have done some research on this stuff and it has worked well for many people for many many years.

I am also considering doing nothing else after treating the rust. I understand that it turns the surface black. Perfect. I am not finished doing the research yet so maybe I will have to prime it with an epoxy primer to keep rust from returning and for uv protection. Thats ok too.

My first choice is the dip with electricity. Thats first class but cost between $2-3 K.

Not an option for me.

Thanks for all your input everyone. Just like talking it over with the boys at the local hangout, only better.

35Mastr · Oct 17, 2007

Maddog,
GIBBS BRAND
This stuff is real good for rust.It actually stops it over time.This guy has used it for years.

Here is the link http://www.roadsters.com/gibbs/#intro

maddog · Oct 29, 2007

I just couldnt stand looking at that dirty thing covered in a thick fuzzy layer of rust so I started taking it off.

I used a red 3m wheel on a right angle die grinder.
Not too bad. Did the whole exterior of the car in 3 hours.
It looks and feels much better.
I think I will continue and do the inside of the same surfaces I just did tomorrow.
It will be a bit more difficult because of more detail and edges but shouldnt be too bad based on how today went.

Funny thing. Under some of the rust was lead. The rust seemed to travel through it or something. Wierd.

After I have done as much as I can with power tools I will switch to small wire brushes for some of the inside surfaces.

After that a good treatment of that Ospho stuff and then some Gibbs.

That should keep it and me happy till the welding is done.

About that lead. How do I get it off? Torch?

35Mastr · Oct 29, 2007

If it has lead it may be there for a reason.Where exactly is it.It was used for many years as a filler before plastics like Bondo. Where roofs meet the actual body or where quarters meet and so forth.If its smooth and not all goin to be a problem.I would leave it.Unless its some type of issue with the metal.

maddog · Oct 29, 2007

Thanks 35.
Yes its there for the right reason and I will be leaving it except in one area where repair is needed under the lead.

Just grind it out?
Use a torch?

I like rust...but, what can I do with this?

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