Seriously think I need a more HD welder.

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Sam_Fear

Brother Rat
Joined
Oct 11, 2008
Messages
12,478
Location
Dixon, IA
First question: I'm figuring I can afford about 1,200$. (Well, I'm willing to spend that much at least!) I was looking at the Miller 211 - It's a dual voltage unit - which I like the idea of. Seems to be comparable to the Miller 212 for abilities other than the 212 has a 60% duty cycle as the 211 has a 30% duty cycle.

I'm sure the 212 is a little heavier in other ways, but the price is also a lot heavier too.

Opinions on the 211?

http://www.millerwelds.com/products/mig/onephase.php
 
Before buying a new welder do some checking around on some good used ones also. Check with a local welder repair shops or talk with someone about a good trade in at a local welding supply store. You can get some good deals this way. I got a great deal on my pruchase of a used welder like that.

I traded a Hobart 135 plus 800 bucks for a older Miller Shopmaster 300. I dont think I will ever have to buy another welder from here on out. It has mig, tig, and stick abilities, AC/DC. BTW this unit sold new for $6000.00. I concider that a good deal.

Also be sure to find out if the inters are copper or aluminum. Copper is better for longer life.

Just a thought and I wish you good luck in your search.[;)
 
I've used up 4 welders in the last 10 years-- 3 were 30% duty cycle machines. I've bumped the duty cycle on all of them fairly often, and it turns out thats real hard on the electronics. One was a 20% duty cycle 110 V Miller that I kicked off 2-3 times a week. I would never recommend a 110 V MIG because of that. I believe the 211 running on 110 would have that problem. Because of these experiences I would be real concerned about buying a used %30 machine. If I bought a used machine I'd get one of the light industrial units like the 210 Miller full bodied 60% cycle units. I've heard nothing but good about them from hobby builders or racers. One of those from a home shop should not have been abused too much. I don't think I'd buy any welder from a professional though.. Might be too used...

I looked into the 211 when I bought this new one I just got and what I understand is that it's basically a 180 with dual voltage. I think thats kinda 'gadjety', and that's usually just something that sounds better than it really turns out to be. You can get a 180 for $700 or so. The 180 is just a newer version of the 3-4 year old 175 that I just burned up-so----not too good of a deal in my world.

My youngest son has a 180 Hobart that he's used for 10 years doing body mods, and it's a %30 machine, he just doesn't do frame work with it, and has never kicked it off. So I guess it's really what you plan to do.

I hate to have my tools limit me--I have plenty of limitations on my own--I don't need anything to add to them. I have regrets for not getting a better tool over the years. It's bad to have regrets--we only get one shot at this life--oughtta take a solid swing at it.

PA41
 
I got a M252 like my old M250 it lasted 13 yrs with some heavy welding. That was less then 100 bucks a year. Right now miller has a offer you get a alum spool gun with purchase. Let me know if i can help.
 
Since you brought this back up....

I bought the Miller 211 from Cyberweld, like Don suggested, and have been using it for a couple weeks now. No complaints yet! I did go and buy a heavier clamp for it though.

The second day, I broke the 110 plug adapter - that was my fault though. I knocked a chunk of heavy steel off the bench onto it before I turned on the heat. Things get brittle at 2 degrees.
 
I'm also in the same boat as Sam except I don't have the $1200.00 to buy anything right now. I have a Millermatic 140 that I love but need a bigger mig welder. I hardly ever buy new so I would like suggestions on what to stay away from and why when looking for a used mig. along with what to look for and what max money should I spend on it.

Most of what I do is artistic but would like the capability to do some moderately structural stuff 1/4 to maybe 3/8. Even with the art stuff I'm welding some rather heavy steel beyond what my welder is designed for, I have never came close to the duty cycle though.
 
I find that with a Miller or Lincoln ,you can't go wrong, as long as it's 220volt ,a110 volt aren't worth taking out of the box.
 
I had a miller 135 that would weld up to 1/4 inch on pass. fine for anything the buzz box would burn up.
A construction company I worked for needed some 115v flux core portables for welding metal studs. we were steel framing on commercial and residential jobs. They started out with the cheapest no name units and smoking everything right on up the price list rather quickly except for the Millers... They even killed their 110v Lincolns but I'm talking everyday, day long production work...
That's why I bought a Miller.

My miller would weld fine off a generator but at home it would start spitting and operating irregular after welding a few inches. I noticed it would weld better at night.
I took it down to the shop to see if the solid state stuff was still good and it checked out fine.
I never had my house wiring load tested but the shop told me my symptoms were of voltage drop making the welder work harder...temp goes up... starts welding bad...
Most houses use 14 or 12 guage wire for 110

If your having a problem welding with a 110v welder at your place try making a powerstation.
It's a heavy extension cord with a 4 gang on one end that plugs into a 220 outlet and splits it into 2 separate 110v pairs at the gang box.
We used to use them building houses because the air compressors and saws would run better on 150 feet of 220v split to 110v at the compressor than it would running off 150 foot of 110 volt all they way from the breaker panel.
A 220v volt circuit has 2 hots and a common.
110 uses one hot and a common
You go hot to common and you have 110v
You go hot to hot and you have 220v
Essentially its a 6 or 8 guage 220 extension cord where you give each hot wire it's own plug and run the single common for them both.
each hot leg of a 220v volt circuit is 110volt to common


when I wired the garage I didn't want to replace the house panel. I didn't have the money to run a full separate 130-200 amp leg to the garage, and I don't have the need for one.
I had a spare slot in my panel for one 220 breaker.
I ran a 220v slave panel out in the garage using about 40ft of #6 stranded copper rated for 70 amp circuit.

That's not 70 amps through one wire...The way 220 works each hot leg carries half of the load. the appliance using the electricity blocks what it doesn't use through resistance. the power from 2 hots through a 220v appliance can return to ground through a single common (single conductor). You do not want your safety ground to connect to the common. BAD JU JU !!!!

The reason is that when the appliance is running...the trigger is pulled and energy is flowing to ground...the common has juice. The earth completes the circuit.

If theres water where it ain't supposed to be... and your in the middle... your a short circuit friend... electricity will always follow the path of least resistance. this can mean you.

The ground plug does this:
It grounds the appliance. If theres water, and the electricity might want to go through it (and you) instead of going the long way home through the common (which itself when in use has a higher potential than ground but not as high a potential than the hot). The stray electricity finds it's way home through the ground plug.
Hot is hot
Common is low
Ground is nil, nothing, zero...earth
Electricity flows hot to common and in case of emergency, to ground.
If there is a fault in the wire ground compared against earth ground... the GFCI..ground fault interruptor senses stray power there and kills power at the hot.
circuit breakers only kill power above their rated amount...more than I can handle...
It all eventually returns to earth but when and where is most important.

SO for proper gfci action...for safety...your grounds have to be set up right or one puddle could kill you.

Copper has less resistance and produces less heat at a given current than aluminum wire.
also...
Stranded conductors flow more juice with less heat buildup than solid conductors.
The reason is that stress follows a surface.
Any change in the molecular structure of a material is a surface
it's true for mechanical engineering and for electrical.
It's why a drive shaft tube can handle nearly as much torque that a solid shaft can handle.
It's how a scratch can turn into a crack

nearly all of the electrons flowing in a wire are moving along the surface of the wire.
The more surface area, the less resistance.

anyways,

I ran a 70 amp breaker (dual 35 amp circuits) in the house to the garage with #6 stranded, a 30 amp breaker with #10 solid wire on the air compressor and a 50 amp breaker with #6 stranded on the stick welder.
70 amps at 110v ac isn't going to have the same heat and resistance that 70 amps at 12v will.
If I remember right 12v at 70 amps is a lot more current than 110v at 70 amps and ends up being more heat and requiring a larger cable. It's been along time since electronics school....

I have an outlet just for the miller 135 using only a couple feet of #10 wire where the 110 splits off the 220 for minimal voltage drop. If I plug directly into it I'm fine. I can run a 10 foot #12 extension cord or a #10 extension cord up to about 20' and I'm fine but if there's #14 guage anywhere in the middle the welder gets skippy.
Also, keep the welder out of direct sunlight and keep a fan on it or use it at night during the summer when everyone's air conditioners are not sucking the neighborhood grid power down.

I'm not saying the miller 135 is the greatest all purpose welder, I'm just saying I think it's the best in it's class and how you can get along with it's weaknesses by having the best wiring and pay attention to when you use it.

At first I thought problems I was having was the welder or the way I was using it until I plugged it into a 4000 watt generator and it welded as well as a 220v unit.
If your wire is exposed to the elements over time that can cause it to act the same way as voltage drop problems from water in the flux.
Then my buddy... his wasn't working right... way bad.
I brought my welder over his place and mine welded considerably worse at his place than at mine.

The problem at my place isn't the welder and it isn't the wiring, it's the voltage drop at the pole to my house. Not too bad but not perfect under load.
The municipality says they are providing me with electricity within guidelines and my use is not an ordinary household use requiring them to revamp their delivery.


I spliced a pickup frame with a miller 135.
It came out very nice and proper
90kpsi wire, preheat the weld for optimal penetration and so it doesn't cool off too quickly...
I would not advise it unless you are a really good welder with an keen eye for what's going on in the puddle and not in a hurry.

I can see my penetration with a wire feed where I cannot with a stick welder.

my stick needs a lot of work

I was certified by Elliot Equipment truck cranes for mig spray process all position to 1.5" thickness and overhead.
I worked for them welding up the outriggers and other stuff we built from scratch. I also spliced frames there.
My eyes started bothering me at night around about a year of welding 660v 3 phase spray process

My vertical and overhead with the stick is not the best, I can't see what's going on under the slag and mostly have to guess if I'm moving the right speed and such...try a little and take a peek with the slag off...
I never had to do it commercially so I never had someone there to work with me on the stick welding. I have seen and envied ironworkers and pipefitters making some beautiful all position welds with a stick.
 
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If you're gonna be doing any real welding, forget the 110v. Gotta go with 220v. As stated, Miller or Lincoln. Hobart is good also, it's made by Miller. I never buy new! Keep your eyes peeled on the local craigslist. There's always deals to be had there. Just check the welder out real good before laying down cash.

I scored this off of CL last month. Hobart Ironman 210. It'll weld up to 3/8" plate. Came with full bottle, installed spoolgun switch, 2/3 full .035 roll and a spare whip/gun assembly. Less than 20 hours. Practically brand new - $700!

P1010007.jpg
 
"If you're gonna be doing any real welding, forget the 110v"

I'm with him ^

The reason I bought one was portability, taking it here and here to fix stuff.
it was slow goings and a PITA to use as a shop welder.
After getting it I realized It didn't make too many trips anywhere, i would have been better off buying a 220 and renting a portable if I ever needed to do something portable like patching up a buddies muffler or replacing broken spring hangers 2 hours from home.

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I have a Snap-on 110 I have used for 20 years and still works great still use it for sheet metal.
a few years ago I bought a ESAB Multi Master 260 off craigslist for $1100 and love it
it is a MiG ,DC Tig, And Stick in one unit
will go to 300 amp running ..45 wire and will weld 1/2 plate with no problem
does require a 70 breaker and love to run up the elect bill.
so also watch craigslist and check with welding supply stores they some time get trade in. and school auctions there are good deals on welder out there
 
I run a snapon Ml250 for mig and alum spool gun. I have had it 10 years and never had a problem. If I hadn't gotten it off of a dealer going out of business then I would have bought a Miller. I have a lincoln TIG 350 that I scored off of ebay for $700 + 10 hrs of travel to get it. Came with a new torch, leads and clamp. It was a $7k rig new. Guy found after he bought it that he didn't have the 100A 220 capacity at his shop to run it.
 
i bought the 211 in sept. and have no complaints with it, i would feel comfortable welding a frame with it in 110 or 220. i like it cause i can load it up in my truck go to a friends house and use the 110 outlets. hell with it plugged into 110 and turned all the way down it hard welding up lil rust holes.
 

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