Coils,,

23crate · Sep 15, 2024

hi Guys,

im looking for a good quality coil ,, similar to this sketch ..

i seemed to amassed a fairly decent collection of made in roc but with who evers label attached to it usually dumping the primary and occasionally the secondary circut,, or both .

This has happed both using and not using a ballast .. yet theres no change in wiring anywhere save for an extra earth from the block to the frame

now is getting tiresome , im not to sure on these pertronix kits, wondering also of i can use an HEI cap + extras on my old early 60s delco

any thoughts gratefully received

Old Iron · Sep 16, 2024

Make sure not to mount the coil upside down. There'll not be any oil around the coil.
It's best to mount it upright and not even laid horizontally.

23crate · Sep 21, 2024

Thanks OI,

after the 2nd to last one popped its fizzer, i shifted the stock mounting from off the block (horizontally mounted ) to handily placed mounting holes in the firewall - mounting it vertically ,,,

sigh

23crate · Oct 9, 2024

ok im sharing a thought here... instead of replacing a new coil yet another new coil, ... I cruised down (if you call it that in a late model car) to my local salvage yard, multimeter in hand, fossicked through their collection of spares.. i came away with 2 coils. .. quick clean up and paint ..

Ive come to a conclusion -- what ive discovered, is that the oil is easily heard splashing around inside new modern coils.. older coils barely a noise, (2 Different brands) i think the new ones are not filled with enough oil to cover the top of the windings... therefore burning out ..

so im going to drain the oil out of the latest failed one and top up the new one .. ill risk it as a spare .,.

ill also be careful not to completely fill the test coil .. when the current one implodes - if it does - ill fit the new and improved coil.. and see what happens .. and yup ill have a second spare ..

updates as they occur .. and very interested , if anyone else tests my theory .... before i do

smallfoot · Oct 9, 2024

Crate, if you have a farm supply style store near, get a tractor coil. I used them for years before going HEI. worked for me and sometimes cheaper than auto parts stores...Wish I was closer, I'd send you what I have left around here. I don't think I ever heard one that sloshed around inside!

23crate · Oct 9, 2024

1

smallfoot said:
Crate, if you have a farm supply style store near, get a tractor coil. I used them for years before going HEI. worked for me and sometimes cheaper than auto parts stores...Wish I was closer, I'd send you what I have left around here. I don't think I ever heard one that sloshed around inside!

Small quick internet search of tractor parts shows similar pricing downunder unfortunately .. and similar ROC products

..
i just dont think these are up to it .. the sloshing of internal oils is the clue im thinking .

Thanks for the thought of sending some of your old ones out ,, i should be good for a while .. Old nos condensors are the next thing to find.. theres a good selection on ebay for cheap, ive chewed through a bunch of those as well...

later today im heading 5hrs south of home to probably the biggest swap meet in the South Island... ready for 9am opening 1st day tomorrow... quite often theres NOS electrical & piles of old coils as well.. so will stock up ..

in 1961 Stude fitted Delco distributors to their v8's, only for a year-ish-- all SB chev rotor points etc ) but has a 7-8" long oil pump drive attached under the cam gear .. held in place with a roll pin .. i wonder if its possible and how difficult it would be to swap the HEI on to a points dizzy ?

keep your powder dry

gene49 · Oct 11, 2024

Can you add the oil pump drive off the point distributor onto the bottom of the HEI distributor?

Joey Mayhugh · Oct 11, 2024

MSD 8222 coil is epoxy filled and can be mounted in any position.

smallfoot · Oct 11, 2024

The only thing I don;t like about HEI is the looks. I got over it tho because they perform well for me and it has less devices clogging up the engine well. On both my trucks, I'm using the standard coil that comes in them and the Pertronics Flame Thrower modules. The caps give me about 30,000 miles before they burn thru, but that's not bad!

23crate · Oct 11, 2024

ok what diameter is the cap on those HEI's .. ive have about 1" between the delco 'window' cap and the firewall.. Larks are known for busting dizzy caps ...

i remember repairing a 63 that had been rear ended while parked, dizzy cap it was jigsaw pieces

smallfoot · Oct 11, 2024

23crate said:
i'm pretty sure that won't work Crate. Diameter of the hei case is bigger than a points style dizzy. I like Gene's idea but don't know if it's possible. If you have clearance problems with a points style then the HEI won't fit any better. I had to cut into my firewall on the 31 and placed a curved piece of steel behind it to close the hole. I have just enough clearance to pull the dizzy without pulling the motor.

23crate · Oct 11, 2024

Small .. im going to have to measure and compare physically i reckon .. good exercise.. or go with the Petronix option

managed to find NOS condensors and another new cap for cheap at swap meet .. and a good accel super sport coil ..

no cool car pix sorry

23crate · Oct 11, 2024

Gene .. something ill look into , will keep you posted

offroadrolls · Oct 12, 2024

I got two ideas after reading this thread. The coil / points circuit is usually cut to 9 point something volts via external ballast resistor or a coil with internal resistor. Second, in the late 70's Toyota had an electronic ignition that used conventional points to trigger an igniter box mounted on top of the coil. The points in those lasted forever, I suppose because there's not a lot of voltage going to them. I've wondered if points could be used to trigger an HEI module but never tried it.

23crate · Oct 12, 2024

Offroadrolls . this is a bit interesting ...

i know very little re HEI, but intrigued buy your comments,, so will spend the next few days reading up on it

its time i learned a bit more .. do you remember the model Toyota that used this system?

https://www.geocities.ws/loudgpz/Hei4pinGmIgnitionNotes.txt

offroadrolls · Oct 13, 2024

23crate said:
Offroadrolls . this is a bit interesting ...

i know very little re HEI, but intrigued buy your comments,, so will spend the next few days reading up on it

its time i learned a bit more .. do you remember the model Toyota that used this system?

https://www.geocities.ws/loudgpz/Hei4pinGmIgnitionNotes.txt

Celicas and Land Cruisers is what I remember working on that had that system. I think they were on 1977 or so model year's.. I also remember thinking it was period in time when Toyota must have been transitioning to electronic ignition and came up with a points trigger electronic system for some reason before they went to hall effects. I also remember those igniter boxes got very expensive as the supply dried up in the 90's. In fact, I used to collect them from junkyards and use them to convert points systems before pertronix and the like became available for nearly anything. When I get back to Steamboat I'll dig up the one I have left and see if it has a part number on it.

offroadrolls · Oct 13, 2024

Here's a short write up. In it there's a good description of how capacitor discharge ignition works, CDI/Pertronix

http://www.vw-resource.com/cdi.html

and here's a good thread from the HAMB

https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/threads/adding-cdi-to-points-ignition.1253424/

23crate · Oct 14, 2024

Off road, good links and explained alot thanks !!!

instructions mfg. ESP systems Mt Clemens MI48045

offroadrolls · Oct 15, 2024

23crate said:
Off road, good links and explained alot thanks !!!

instructions mfg. ESP systems Mt Clemens MI48045

Ya, what stuck out to me was that the old Mopar boxes can be triggered by points. Heck, you can still buy those new.

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