54 chevy spindals on a strait axle???

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chopper tom

Way too young to be a hippy!
Joined
Oct 30, 2007
Messages
952
Location
whitesburg KY
I have two sets of 54 chevy car spindals.Whats involved in puting them on a ford strait axle[30's or 40's ''ish'' ford car]
Speedway says some thing about they have to be machined ??
I want to keep the drum brakes if possible .
I will be using this for my t-bucket.
 
The camber angle is different. I guess there is a way of bending the Ford axle to bring it to the Chevy specs, but you would also have to deal with the kingpin bore size issue and the width of the axle in the kingpin area. I wouldn't want to go through all of that work.

I would sell the Chevy ones on Ebay, they bring good money (I've bought and sold a few pairs there) Then use the money to buy a proper '37-48 Ford spindle set. That way you know it will fit with no modifications.

I have a set of '54 Chevy brakes on the front of my '39 Dodge because that is the axle I had to work with, and I searched a long time to find a decent set of Chevy brakes and spindles.

Oh, BTW, the machining Speedway is talking about is on the ends of the spindles to adapt various disc brake setups, not to use them with a Ford axle. If you have the complete drum setup, maybe you should just buy a new axle that is set up for the Chevy spindles already.

Don
 

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Tom, Take a look in th "BS Lounge" under "Kool Car Photos" page 48, #475. That is my gray '27 Roadster. It has a Chevy van axle that I got for 10 bucks. I trimmed the spring pads off of it and drilled it through the web. I narrowed it about 5" too. I'll bet there's lots of axles like it around your area. You could sell your spindles, buy a van axle and have money to spend on other things for your "T".
 
I have two sets of 54 chevy car spindals.Whats involved in puting them on a ford strait axle[30's or 40's ''ish'' ford car]
Speedway says some thing about they have to be machined ??
I want to keep the drum brakes if possible .
I will be using this for my t-bucket.

The Chevy spindles use a .867 diameter king pin and the axle boss length is 2.125 inches in length. A Ford axle uses a .813 diameter king pin and has a 2.375 axle boss length. What this means is the Ford axle has to be honed out 54 thousands of an inch (.054) and you need two 1/8th inch spacers to compensate for the 1/4 inch bigger axle boss length. That is all that has to be done if your goning to use the stock Chevy drum brakes with your Chevy spindles. IF you want to put disc brakes on the Chevy spindles then yes the spindles need to be machined...but again if your using the stock drum brakes you just need to open up the Ford axle slightly to accomadate the Chevy king pins.
 
Here is a tutorial on what you have to go through to adapt Chevy spindles to a Ford axle:
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Another swap around a long time that has recently really caught on is the early GM spindle and brake unit changeover. Use the 1941-'55 Pontiac; 1937-56 Olds; 1949-54 Chevy; or 1953-62 Corvette.

There are two ways of installing the GM spindle on an early Ford beam axle. The first is to ream the Ford axle kingpin holes to .859-inch inside diameter, so the GM kingpin can be used. This is beat done with an expansion reamer but it takes a while. When you do the job, have the new kingpin to measure with your one inch micrometer. After you have taken a mic reading, start reaming. After each ream use a telescoping gauge (snap gauge) to find the inside diameter. Then take a mic reading. Take about a quarter to a half turn on the expansion reamer nut each time, depending on reamer used. Most important is not to overload the blades or they will possibly brake or chatter. You will notice that if you turn the nut equally each time the reamer will remove the same amount within about .001-inch. In this way you can calculate what you will take off by how much you turn the nut on the reamer. This is important when you get down to the last few thousandths. When you do start making the finish passes, go about .001-inch each time and test the kingpin for fit. When the kingpin fits the bore with a hand press fit or when you can tap it through with a hammer, you're home safe.

The other choice is to make or have made a set of bushings for the GM spindle to fit early Ford kingpins. Use a quality bearing bronze for the bushing. Machine the bushing by first chucking up a 1-1/8-inch diameter bar of bronze bushing stock in a three-jaw lathe chuck with about 1-1/2 inches protruding past the jaws. Our spindle measured 1.055 inches inside diameter for the bushing but measure your own. Add about 1/2-thousandth (.0005) to the outside diameter for a press fit. Turn the bar to your diameter the length of your spindle boss height. Next, center drill, and drill to 51/64-inch a little longer than the bushing length. Cut off with a lathe parting tool to length. Measure the spindle boss for the grease fitting hole height, center punch, and drill a 1/4-inch hole in the bushing. Press bushing in spindle boss with the grease hole aligning with the boss grease fitting. Now ream the bushings to an .812-inch inside diameter with either an expansion reamer or Ford kingpin reamer.

The kingpin bosses are all the same height on '28-48 Ford axles, 2-3/8 inches. Some GM spindles, such as some of the Olds, have enough space between the kingpin bosses to place the 1/2-ineb tall stock Ford or GM spindle bearing. Some of the spindles, like the '49-54 Chevy spindle, do not have the room so a special bearing must be made. Use roller assembly NTA 1423 and two races. This bearing has a total height of .327-inch. A chromed axle could possibly have enough chrome on the kingpin bosses that you might have to shave, say maybe .010 off the boss bottom to get the bearing to fit. Some Chevy spindles have a little more room than others and the bearing will just slip in. Some axles have to be machined regardless, because the boss bearing surface has been chewed. The thrust bearing is of such close tolerance that an uneven race surface will keep the bearing from working. The race will settle to the shape of the metal supporting it. The best way to get an even surface is to mill.

The easiest way to set up to mill is to use a vertical end mill. First set the spindle head on its 00 marks in a vertical position. Next, place a drill chuck in the spindle with a dial indicator in the chuck. Securing the axle~ to the table can be done in different ways. One is to use an angle vise placed at either end of the table with the jaws parallel to the length of the table. Turn the axle upside down and place a new kingpin about one inch into the boss. Set the axle end in the vise with the other end hanging over the opposite table end. If you have a chrome axle, use copper sheet on the vise jaws. Use a bubble level on the front and side of the kingpin to find the vertical position. Then pull the vise snug, but not tight.

Position the dial indicator in such a way that you are able to move the axle up and down so that the indicator runs the full length of the kingpin. If the kingpin is straight up and down there will be no measurable difference. If you set the dial indicator on 0~ at the top of the kingpin side and move it down with a plus or minus reading at the bottom, the kingpin is not straight up and down. By using a wedge of sorts or a machinist jack under the opposite axle end, the left-right adjustment can be made by moving the axle up and down. The fore and aft adjustment can be made by moving the vise on its axis. Because the vise moves in one direction from 00 to 450, you might have to turn your vise around so the adjustment is in the opposite direction if the pin cannot be aligned in the first direction. Once you reach the 0 at the top to 0 at the bottom on both sides of the pin, remove the drill chuck and install an end mill or flycutter.

If you don't want to mill your axle (and try your luck), a smaller thrust bearing is available. It is roller assembly NTA 1423, the same as the last bearing with 1/8-inch rollers, but with a static capacity of 5980 lbs., and basic dynamic capacity of 2500 lbs. Use TRC 1423 races which are .095-inch thickness, .029-inch less than TRD 1423. If the axle bearing surface is rough, and some are, you're pushing your luck without milling.
 
Tutorial was to long for one post, here is the second part:


The grease retainer can be machined several ways. Any grade aluminum or mild steel will work. If you have a 1-5/8~inch bar, chuck it up in a three-jaw lathe chuck with about 1-1/2 inches protruding from the jaws. Face the end and center drill. Drill about 3/4-inch deep with any drill between 3/4 to 1-3/8-inch. Finish the inside diameter with a tool bit or boring bar. Next, cut the race recess, measuring depth of cut by micrometer collar on cross slide, inside micrometer, telescoping gauge and a one to two-inch micrometer, or vernier calipers. Verniers will also measure the length of the cut easily, as will a one-inch depth micrometer. When the inside has been machined, 180 or 220 emery cloth the recess for any burns and radius the inside edge. lf you started with a larger bar, turn to diameter before cutting to length with a lathe parting tool.

If you have some 5/16-inch aluminum scrap about the diameter of the retainer, you can quick-n-dirty machine it out in no time. Find approximate center using dividers and centerpunch. Using the dividers, scribe the outside and inside diameter lines. Hacksaw or bandsaw off, close to the outside diameter, any large protrusions. It just takes longer to machine if you don't. Place a 3/4 or one inch parallel in a machinist vise with the plate on top. Secure the scrap and center drill after sliding the parallel out. Drill a 1/2 or 3/4-inch hole to match whatever size nut and bolt you have that is about three inches long. Really cinch the nut down on the scrap so it won't spin on the bolt. Slip the bolt in a three-jaw chuck until the nut touches the jaws. Tighten the jaws so they hol~1 the bolt, but don't screw the threads up too bad. Ya gotta use that low-budget mandrel one more time, not counting getting the nut off after the first time. Take light passes to keep from spinning the bolt in the chuck. When you reach the diameter by eyeballing the scribe or using a mic' or vernier, disassemble your nifty mandrel. Place the retainer in the chuck again and eyeball for runout as the chuck spins. If it is in the jaws crooked you can see it wobble back and forth as you stand at the lathe in normal position. Don't worry about the hole not being true to the center because it bobs up and down when you look at it from the end of the lathe. Just get the retainer face true in the direction the chuck spins by eyeballing. A tool bit works a little better than drilling the hole and using a boring bar because of the lesser pressure against the retainer, As the hole gets bigger, the sides get thinner, and the retainer starts to collapse under jaw pressure. When you reach inside diameter, then cut the recess as in the first method.

Now press your retainer on a race. The outside diameter of the race is sheared, which means that it is not exactly round; that there are numerous low spots. If the race is loose in the press fit, remove race and peen edge of tight side to make the inside diameter even smaller. Place the race through loose side and carefully seat race with a brass drift punch and hammer. Place the unit on a flat piece of metal like an anvil or vise column to do this. With the bearing and the other race installed, the loose race should rotate freely. Install on axle with pressed race at the top. It takes about 20 minutes to do this whole thing with no coffee break or messin' around.

When it comes to kingpins, the GM pins will bolt right in after you have carefully ground a new notch. Assemble the spindle to the axle and set the kingpin in until it is equal distance from the end, on each end. Mark center of axle hole on kingpin with any method of your choice and remove. Grind a small notch and replace to check for notch height and kingpin bolt fit. If you're too far up or down from the center, grind on the short side to center the notch and recheck. Try to grind a notch similar to the Ford bolt shape. When the kingpin bolt can be seated snug with a hammer, with the head still out one end and enough threads out the other for a lock washer and nut, you're home safe.

With early Ford kingpins you use the '37-41 pin which is 5-1/2 inches long. Remove the top retainer so the pin will fit under the GM grease retainers. You will possibly have to grind a new notch, check to be sure. On GM spindles that use the 5-1/4 inches kingpin length use the '37-41 Ford kingpin and measure the axle/spindle combo to see which end to grind off, or both, to retain the stock notch. Use an abrasive cut-off saw or grinder.

You will have to fabricate a steering arm if one did not come with your spindles. You may have to shorten your tie rod. This depends on what axle you use. A dropped axle will have the kingpin bosses closer together than stock, but the stock axles also vary in total length, plus spring perch hole distances vary. Put your front end together and try your tie rod, it might fit as is.

In order for the Ford tie rod ends to fit the GM steering arms, the tapered tie rod holes must be enlarged. Both the GM and Ford tie rods have the same taper angle and use the same taper reamer. It is possible to ream the GM steering hole from either side so the Ford tie rod could be placed on the top or bottom for radius rod clearance. A tie rod could also be made from 13/16-inch outside diameter .190-inch wall thickness seamless tubing. All you will need to do is tap the inside diameter with a 1/2 x 20 tap. If you have a right and left hand tap, you will be able to make a tie rod that you can adjust like the Ford. If you use a right hand tap on each end, one end will have to be removed from the steering arm to adjust toe-in.
 
Still too long, so here is the last part. This one deals with the camber issue:

You will also have to change the axle camber. Our reference shows 90 kingpin inclination on '28-'34 Ford axles and 80 on '35-48. 1949-59 Chevy is 40, '37-'48 Olds is 4~5/60 and '49-52 is 50, That is a sampling of only a few of the differences. All it really shows is that you have to bend the axle.

One way to figure how much to bend your axle comes from Ace Brake & Wheel Service, 1415 25th Street, Bakersfield, California 93301, Owner Fred Ousley, suggested a method to save the owner a small fortune in shop labor, if he could find a shop willing to do it. He said that to bend the axle a half to a full degree was relatively easy. The trouble comes when bending a substantial amount; the kingpin caster will wander, you sort of chase your alignment all over the axle because of the extreme pressures needed to bend it while in the car.

His method is to place the axle in a vise with copper jaw covers, preferably a large vise, lay a straightedge horizontally from the inner kingpin hole edge on one side to the opposite kingpin hole edge. Level the axle with a bubble level. Next, assemble the GM spindles on the axle and place a level on any machined surface that is true to the brake drum axle center. This could be the machined surface for the backing plate or the bearing locating surface on the spindle end, The spindle will visibly point upward but you will need the level for measuring how much to bend the axle until the bubble hits level,

If you are lucky enough to have or find a dropped axle that is really sway-backed, no problem bending it. Place the axle in a hydraulic press, belly up, and place wood blocks wherever the axle touches the press. We used a 250-ton press that wouldn't take no for an' answer, but a smaller press could easily work. Press equally along the axle between the spring perches to straighten out the axle. At the same time the kingpin angles are lessening due to the axle bending. It's trial and error any way you bend it, so level the axle, replace the spindles, then check with your level after each time you bend.

Once you have leveled the axle, then you are ready to twist it so the hole centers on the same plane. Four steel rods, about a foot and a half long, are pressed into both the kingpin and spring perch holes, Looking at the axle from the end shows any twist in the axle. If you are going to run parallel wishbones, don't worry about the twist of the spring perch holes. If you are going to run a stock type or split stock type wishbone the spring perch holes must be parallel. If not, the stock wishbone will not fit without forcing and will misalign the kingpin holes. The split type will bolt on with no problem except when the wishbone ends are bolted to the chassis at equal points in height, they will twist the axle.

We left the axle in the vise and used a 24-inch adjustable end wrench over the spring perch boss to twist the axle. It bends easy, so be careful. If the perch holes are parallel but the king-pins are not, secure the axle at the perch bosses and grip the kingpin boss with the wrench and bend in the right direction. Eyeball with rods in place, or just use a level on the kingpins when using a parallel wishbone setup where the perch hole misalignment is not important.

With the new axle installed, alignment is the standard procedure most competent front end shops can do with no problems, little time, and little money.

Ken Mitchell, the front end alignment man at Haberfelde Ford in Bakersfield, gave me more information on beam axles. Ford beam axles are made of Canadian steel and are tempered. It is the temper that gives the axle the life to hold alignment. When the axle ends are heated too much it draws the life out of the steel and it becomes a dead axle. A live axle, when being bent, will be moved 2~ to 30 past the desired angle because of spring-back. A dead axle is easy to bend and will bend right to shape, no springback. As easily as it bends to shape, the car weight and road bumps will bend it back out of shape, pronto. Ken recommends bending any beam axle out of the car if it needs more than a half degree camber change. He uses right and left hand benders called 'crows feet," These should be used when changing camber on a dropped axle when only the area between the spring perch boss and kingpin boss is being bent. You can preheat the axle end to about 3000 F., but not enough to make the metal change color. When the axle changes color, it loses its temper, and becomes soft. If you have a dead axle it can be retempered by a professional heat treating shop,


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Now, the question is, do you REALLY want to go through all of this to use your Chevy brakes, or would it be easier to plunk down $ 300 for an axle already built with the proper camber and all so that they just bolt on?? I don't know what your time is worth, but I would rather spend the money and get the right axle to start with. :D:D

Don
 
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ahhh???
Thanks guys!
I have access to some econoline axles too ?can i use them if i need to ?Or what about an international strait axle off about a 70's ish truck ?
I have another extra 50's chevy truck axle [complete] also [i used the same on my c-cab that i did a few years ago and it worked out really well with dualsprings]
 
54 chevy brakes

I also wont to usen 54 chevy 5 lug spindals and drum brakes but on 37 chevy stock front axle if and one could help with that how to id be thankful. thanks billy the kidd bender
 

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