700r4, 200r4, TH400?

[jmlcolorado]

Alright guys, there is TONS of info on this exact topic through the web, BUT, I trust everyone hee and know the advice you all provide is sound.
I had a belly button SBC 350 and was going to use it in the pickup along with a TH400 tilli found the SBc had spun mains. Got my hands on a half built Olds 350 so that's the new power plant.
I will be building this engine to have approx 400hp/400tq. So the question is, do I stick with the 400 (which I don't know the history of, so a rebuild is required), do I snag myself a used 700r4 and rebuild later, or do the same thing with a 200 4r
Right now I don't have the funds for a monster rebuild, but I need something to mock up the drivetrain.
I am willing to junk yard a trans just for mock up if I have to.
I know the later (87-92) 700's can be built up easily to handle with I need, but then I also hear the 200 is a bit more street friendly due to the better ratios between gears.
I just want to hear your experiences.


Edit: please ignor the mid designation of the 200 4r.

 

[skull]

?

l have have and had both, one is the 2OOR4 with a 327 & 3:36 gears in a 28OO pound rod l still drive a lot and 2OOO ZR2 with a V-6, 7OOR4 and 3:73 gears and l love them both.

the 2OO is a little more to build but very street friendly. the 7OO was great on the freeway and OK in town,

sorry l am not much help, both are a good choice.

Later

 

[Dirtyrat]

I'd say you would kick yourself if you are going to drive it on the street without an OD...

700R4 is probably the easiest, and cheapest I would think?

 

[Undercover Customs]

I'd do the 200. It'll bolt up to the Olds motor ( 700 would need an adapter ). The 700's have a really low 1st gear making for a big transition from 1st to 2nd. I think the 200 is often overlooked as a performance option but guy's are running them in Regals doing 9's in the quarter. Just have to build it good. 200's are more difficult to locate..

 

[jmlcolorado]

I'd say you would kick yourself if you are going to drive it on the street without an OD...

700R4 is probably the easiest, and cheapest I would think?

I agree with ya here. The only reason the 400 is even an option is because I have it here now. And that's the only reason.
I guess the old adage goes here, do it right once right, or do it wrong and do it twice.

 

[jmlcolorado]

I should probably add (cause someone will eventually ask, Im running a GM rear end with 3:10 gears and 29" tires.

I'd do the 200. It'll bolt up to the Olds motor ( 700 would need an adapter ). The 700's have a really low 1st gear making for a big transition from 1st to 2nd. I think the 200 is often overlooked as a performance option but guy's are running them in Regals doing 9's in the quarter. Just have to build it good. 200's are more difficult to locate..

Is there a disadvantage of having to use an adapter plate? Other then the extra cost of materials?
The other reason I'm leaning towards a 700 is due to the abundance of them around. I could go pull one of those from the salvage yard at pretty much anytime. A 200 might be a bit more difficult to come by.
Once again, this reasoning is only in play because I need one pretty quick (working or not) to complete mock-up.
I can buy a solid built 700 or 200 online all day long.

 

[42chevy]

The 700 is cheaper. Adapter plates aren't too spendy. One good thing about an Olds 350 is a larger bore than Chevy 350 and they are tough. Also a 455 Olds is pretty much a bolt in swap if you decide to upgrade later. Good luck, my Olds 350 surprised many people.

 

[21willys]

If you put much of a cam in your motor your gonna need a stall converter and they aren't cheap for a overdrive. With the gears you have I would go with the 400. You will never have any problems out of it and they withstand some abuse.

 

[Old Iron]

Yep early 80's 700's are junk, I use the mid to late 80's 700's because of the shear numbers available.
I have one in my 40 Pontiac with a Pontiac 455 HO, adapter plate, 2.54 gears, 1,600 at 70, 17 miles to the gal. with a 750 HP Holley. Could get better mileage with a different carb.
All the power I need out of the hole with the 3.06 to 1 low gear.
A 400 is a beast, 3.10's with 29" tires is not a bad combo either. I just happen to like the overdrives.

 

[jmlcolorado]

Yep early 80's 700's are junk, I use the mid to late 80's 700's because of the shear numbers available.
I have one in my 40 Pontiac with a Pontiac 455 HO, adapter plate, 2.54 gears, 1,600 at 70, 17 miles to the gal. with a 750 HP Holley. Could get better mileage with a different carb.
All the power I need out of the hole with the 3.06 to 1 low gear.
A 400 is a beast, 3.10's with 29" tires is not a bad combo either. I just happen to like the overdrives.

That kind if milage make it even more tempting

 

[Old Iron]

Drove from Springfield Mo. to Quincey IL. and back last Sept. and that was my average highway mileage.
Shocked me.
Had a 350 engine, 650 double pumper, 350 turbo 26.5" tires, 3.50 rear in my wife's 56 Chevy, ran the 2004 Power Tour and ran the guts out of it at 70, 15 mile to the gal. Installed a 700 ran the 2008 Power Tour and got 18 Miles to the gal. It's a no-brainer for me.

 

[Old Iron]

Install a $20 Corvette servo, run B&M Trick Shift tranny fluid in it and you'll be fine.

 

[Tripper]

700 is my tranny of choice! Low 1st gear & high 4th!

BoB

 

[offroadrolls]

I like 700r4's because of 30% overdrive you can run low gears and not be super wound up @ highway speeds . My SBC runs at about 2200 @ 65 mph 2800 @ 75mph with 3.73:1 plus it's pretty quick out of the hole with the low 1st gear. However, turbo 400's are strong and with 3.10:1 you'd have plenty of top end @ 1 to 1 in 3rd gear. Next, I'd assume your truck will be kind of light over the rear wheels so with the 700r4's low 1st gear I'd suspect a burnout machine and with the 30% overdrive with 3.10's it would have a lot of top end. Prolly do 140 lol. From what I've seen of your rat, my choice would be a turbo 400 with 3:10.1 It'll be more of torque monster cruiser but not super quick. my 2 cents

 

[jmlcolorado]

I like 700r4's because of 30% overdrive you can run low gears and not be super wound up @ highway speeds . My SBC runs at about 2200 @ 65 mph 2800 @ 75mph with 3.73:1 plus it's pretty quick out of the hole with the low 1st gear. However, turbo 400's are strong and with 3.10:1 you'd have plenty of top end @ 1 to 1 in 3rd gear. Next, I'd assume your truck will be kind of light over the rear wheels so with the 700r4's low 1st gear I'd suspect a burnout machine and with the 30% overdrive with 3.10's it would have a lot of top end. Prolly do 140 lol. From what I've seen of your rat, my choice would be a turbo 400 with 3:10.1 It'll be more of torque monster cruiser but not super quick. my 2 cents

This advise is awesome! Heat feedback!
Having a burnout machine is appealing, however, not so practice.
Being in Colorado, you know what kind of driving this truck will see. No matter qp where you go, you'll be seeing 55-65 mph speed limits for half the trip. So I'd consider 50% city 50% highway is a fair assessment.
I never really ran the gearing numbers with the rear end and final gars between the different trans, but your right, with an overdrive, I would have a lot of top gear. And it would likely pull the engine below the power band at a normal speed.
You've got me thinking now. Maybe ill run it through some calculators and see what I come up with.

 

[chuckp]

Thread hijack! (for a minute or so) does this look like a Turbo 350 ? [S

 

[jmlcolorado]

Thread hijack! (for a minute or so) does this look like a Turbo 400?[S

What shape is the pan?
http://www.maliburacing.com/auto_tranny_id.htm

 

[Old Iron]

Not a 400 or 350
That's a th200

 

[jmlcolorado]

So I found a good gear ratio calculator and punched in my numbers based off my best guess for my engine's "sweet spot".
If you look at 55MPH for each, which I feel is normal cruising speed ill see for the most part, it actually looks like the TH400 would be closer to the power band.
You really wouldn't want to be at 1200 rpm at 55 with an overdrive trans would you? I figure the trans would constantly be wanting do downshift to get into a better ratio?!
Thoughts?



700R4 gearing and shift points


*******************************
Final Gear Ratio : 3.10
Tire Size : 265-45-20
Max Power RPM : 4000
Limit RPM : 5500
*******************************

*********************
Gear Ratio Compound
*********************
1 3.060 9.486
2 1.630 5.053
3 1.000 3.100
4 0.700 2.170

***************************************
Gear MPH/1000 MPH @4000 MPH @5500
***************************************
1 9.22 37 51
2 17.31 69 95
3 28.22 113 155
4 40.31 161 222

********************************************
MPH RPM (in Gears)
********************************************
1 2 3 4
********************************************
5 542 289 177 124
10 1084 578 354 248
15 1627 867 532 372
20 2169 1155 709 496
25 2711 1444 886 620
30 3253 1733 1063 744
35 3796 2022 1240 868
40 4338 2311 1418 992
45 4880 2600 1595 1116
50 5422 2888 1772 1240
55 3177 1949 1364
60 3466 2126 1489
65 3755 2304 1613
70 4044 2481 1737
75 4333 2658 1861
80 4621 2835 1985
85 4910 3012 2109
90 5199 3190 2233
95 5488 3367 2357
100 3544 2481
105 3721 2605
110 3898 2729
115 4076 2853
120 4253 2977
125 4430 3101
130 4607 3225
135 4784 3349
140 4962 3473
145 5139 3597
150 5316 3721
155 5493 3845
160 3969
165 4093
170 4217
175 4341
180 4466
185 4590
190 4714
195 4838
200 4962
205 5086
210 5210
215 5334
220 5458
225 5582
********************************************

Gear Change RPM drop (change @4000) RPM drop (change @5500)
*************************************************************
1->2 -1869 (To 2131) -2570 (To 2930)
2->3 -1546 (To 2454) -2126 (To 3374)
3->4 -1200 (To 2800) -1650 (To 3850)
*************************************************************



________________________________________________________________




TH400 gearing and shift points


*******************************
Final Gear Ratio : 3.10
Tire Size : 265-45-20
Max Power RPM : 4000
Limit RPM : 5500
*******************************

*********************
Gear Ratio Compound
*********************
1 2.480 7.688
2 1.480 4.588
3 1.000 3.100

***************************************
Gear MPH/1000 MPH @4000 MPH @5500
***************************************
1 11.38 46 63
2 19.07 76 105
3 28.22 113 155

*********************************
MPH RPM (in Gears)
*********************************
1 2 3
*********************************
5 439 262 177
10 879 525 354
15 1318 787 532
20 1758 1049 709
25 2197 1311 886
30 2637 1574 1063
35 3076 1836 1240
40 3516 2098 1418
45 3955 2360 1595
50 4395 2623 1772
55 4834 2885 1949
60 5274 3147 2126
65 3409 2304
70 3672 2481
75 3934 2658
80 4196 2835
85 4458 3012
90 4721 3190
95 4983 3367
100 5245 3544
105 5507 3721
110 3898
115 4076
120 4253
125 4430
130 4607
135 4784
140 4962
145 5139
150 5316
155 5493
160
*********************************

Gear Change RPM drop (change @4000) RPM drop (change @5500)
*************************************************************
1->2 -1613 (To 2387) -2218 (To 3282)
2->3 -1297 (To 2703) -1784 (To 3716)
*************************************************************

 

[Torch]

Tranny fluid red or brown lol