animal
Well-known member
I need to get the '56 Fairlane front end aligned. It's a '75 Camaro subframe, all new parts. The front end guy asked me so supply the specs I want him to align it to. Do I go with the specs from the Camaro?
Alignment specs...use Camaro for subframe, or car it's under?
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Skip
Well-known member
I suspect that the Chevy specs would be the place to start, but it will also depend on the installation. Is it perfect, etc. If the alignment guy can only set it to factory spec, he may not be your best bet. It may take a bit of messin' around to get it to work right. Brighter bulbs will respond also, I hope. 
Chevy specs may be ok if the wheelbase is similar and rear track width is the same. If not I agree with Skip
smallfoot
He's rockin' the "Nuttin Special"!
Take it to somebody else if he needs a computer program to do an alignment!
Got the same problem here. Lots of shops that will do alignments, most with the latest and greatest equipment and not a single soul that could do a thing unless there was a button for it...sorry for the rant!
Got the same problem here. Lots of shops that will do alignments, most with the latest and greatest equipment and not a single soul that could do a thing unless there was a button for it...sorry for the rant!
Old Iron
Well-known member
Rant on brother [P[P[P
Blue Eyed Devil
Devil's Advocate
If a "front end guy" is asking YOU for specs, then you need to find another front end guy.
Honestly, the alignment will be a combination of both, and specific to your vehicle as it is constructed. The rack doesn't know it's a Camaro front end under a Ford - it only measures caster, camber and toe-in/out. Pretty simple. If he can't grasp that then he's no better than the kid behind the parts counter asking if your car has air conditioning when you're trying to buy shocks...
Honestly, the alignment will be a combination of both, and specific to your vehicle as it is constructed. The rack doesn't know it's a Camaro front end under a Ford - it only measures caster, camber and toe-in/out. Pretty simple. If he can't grasp that then he's no better than the kid behind the parts counter asking if your car has air conditioning when you're trying to buy shocks...
Dr Crankenstein
Rocket Surgeon
If you have a Camaro subframe, why wouldn't you use the Camaro specs?
I'm bewildered and here's what I don't understand...
S10 trucks (for example) could be had in wheelbases from 108" to 122". (14" difference when I went to school.) Front end parts are the same, no matter the wheelbase. Are alignment specs different for the 108"WB than the 122"WB? GVWR? I doubt it, but I've never been in the alignment business...
I'm going to flap my lips some more... 2018 - 1975 = 43 years. How many alignment shops have been in business since 1975? How many have "ancient" specs on hand and a person who knows "old" cars? Precious few in this territory... they've either sold, retired and closed shop... or died.
If I have a point to make... computerized alignment equipment is not likely to come loaded with 40 and 50 year old specs, much less a pallet of books. Those specs are largely irrelevant and just like your local parts store, the "database" is limited to late model stuff where the volume (money) is.
Think about this for a minute... right here and now, a 40 year old alignment guy cut his teeth in the late 90's and has roughly 20 years in the field. For easy figuring, his working education began in 1998. Is he an idiot? Probably not and he might own a shop at this juncture. In all fairness, I'd expect this (fictitious) person to know 1988 forward... ten years previous and everything since...
.
I'm bewildered and here's what I don't understand...
S10 trucks (for example) could be had in wheelbases from 108" to 122". (14" difference when I went to school.) Front end parts are the same, no matter the wheelbase. Are alignment specs different for the 108"WB than the 122"WB? GVWR? I doubt it, but I've never been in the alignment business...
I'm going to flap my lips some more... 2018 - 1975 = 43 years. How many alignment shops have been in business since 1975? How many have "ancient" specs on hand and a person who knows "old" cars? Precious few in this territory... they've either sold, retired and closed shop... or died.
If I have a point to make... computerized alignment equipment is not likely to come loaded with 40 and 50 year old specs, much less a pallet of books. Those specs are largely irrelevant and just like your local parts store, the "database" is limited to late model stuff where the volume (money) is.
Think about this for a minute... right here and now, a 40 year old alignment guy cut his teeth in the late 90's and has roughly 20 years in the field. For easy figuring, his working education began in 1998. Is he an idiot? Probably not and he might own a shop at this juncture. In all fairness, I'd expect this (fictitious) person to know 1988 forward... ten years previous and everything since...
.
MercuryMac
Builder Junky!
I agree with all of you guys. If your front-end alignment guy doesn't understand that you need a little caster, a little camber, and a little toe-in, he isn't going to do well setting up a hotrod.
I took front-end alignment in school and enjoyed the engineering of it all, but this was many years ago, [I don't think fire was invented yet], so things were simpler back then. The principals are the same, though.
I took front-end alignment in school and enjoyed the engineering of it all, but this was many years ago, [I don't think fire was invented yet], so things were simpler back then. The principals are the same, though.
smallfoot
He's rockin' the "Nuttin Special"!
Just saying...guess I'm just lucky. Shops wouldn't touch the 31. I did the set up myself. Wish my shop aligned vehicles drove as well as the 31...
Well said Doc. The reason I said wheelbase and tarck width was because the alignment machine needs to see these things to set up properly I think. At least that is the way it was when I was woking in a dealership. I left in 1992, Before I was at that shop I was at a dealership with an old style manual machine and everything was setup very similar all being datsuns and the nissans. I have heard some makes have negative caster but don't remember working on any.
Blue Eyed Devil
Devil's Advocate
Here is where we're going to have a rare disagreement Doc. A pallet of books isn't necessary. Alignment is alignment, and in the technical age we live in, "ancient" is irrelevant. It's setting caster camber and toe, not timing a V-16 Duesenberg. Regardless there is close to unlimited information in pretty much everyone's pocket, and it only requires a minimal amount of effort to obtain. It took me less than 30 seconds to type "1975 Camaro alignment specs" into a search engine and pull up every last bit of information you would ever need about aligning a 1975 Camaro, along with diagrams, pictures and videos. It only takes someone with even a little dedication to their craft to make it happen.
The local parts store database isn't that limited either. I routinely pull up parts for early 50's cars and forward through standard parts house online catalogs. I do my own research because I know it's there. The kid behind the counter staring like a deer in headlights when you ask for an old part doesn't serve you because he doesn't want to make the effort, just like the "front end guy" in question here...
Skip
Well-known member
Maybe we are overthinking this. Now that I think about it some more, and after reading the rest of the comments, it may not be all that important how the sub-frame was installed. Within reason, that is. The main thing to consider is that if you can hit the Chevy specs with the current installation, it should be pretty dang close if not spot on.
The final configuration may not look like it did on the original car, but who cares as long as it drives straight and doesn't wear out the tires before it should.
The final configuration may not look like it did on the original car, but who cares as long as it drives straight and doesn't wear out the tires before it should.
Old Iron
Well-known member
The only real difference here is that the 56 had dive in the suspension and the Camaro along with newer vehicles has anti-dive.
This anti-dive will make the 56 handle way better than it's original suspension ever did.
This anti-dive will make the 56 handle way better than it's original suspension ever did.
Bamamav
Well-known member
Camber and toe should be the same as it was on the Camaro. Caster could be different, depending on if the subframe is in the same level to the ground as it was on the Camaro. You'll have to check the caster inclination on the spindle and adjust accordingly to the Camaro specs. A bit of extra caster will just help it to go straight at the expense of being a little harder to steer.
animal
Well-known member
Update
I took the '56 to a local guy who has been doing this for a number of years, and is more into old cars as a rule. He set it up with the Camaro specs, took his time, and got it dialed in. I haven't driven it on the road, as it doesn't have a rear window or trunk lid or hood right now, but I believe it'll be fine.
I took the '56 to a local guy who has been doing this for a number of years, and is more into old cars as a rule. He set it up with the Camaro specs, took his time, and got it dialed in. I haven't driven it on the road, as it doesn't have a rear window or trunk lid or hood right now, but I believe it'll be fine.
Old Iron
Well-known member
II haven't driven it on the road, as it doesn't have a rear window or trunk lid or hood right now, but I believe it'll be fine.
None of those excuses are good enough not to drive it [ddd[P[P[P
05snopro440
Well-known member
Just saying...guess I'm just lucky. Shops wouldn't touch the 31. I did the set up myself. Wish my shop aligned vehicles drove as well as the 31...
Aligning a straight axle is easy to do at home (and pointless to take to a shop unless you're mechanically illiterate). Aligning an IFS car definitely needs some kind of equipment.
I will preface my next comments by saying my dad has been an automotive mechanic for the last 45+ years and has done alignments on all our and customer vehicles with clips, front suspension kits, frame swaps, etc.
So to answer the original question, you always use the specs of the suspension you're aligning. In this case, it's a 2 wheel alignment so nothing matters but what the front suspension was from. So you align it to 75 Camaro specs. From the suspension standpoint, it's no longer a 56 Ford so using the alignment specs for the Ford would be terribly incorrect and it would probably handle like a shopping cart. Yes, a good alignment shop can make it handle a little better by tweaking the numbers, but the baseline is going to be 75 Camaro. Some shops have specs for older stuff, and some don't. Really you just have to google, get the specs for a 75 Camaro, and give him that. Done.
05snopro440
Well-known member
None of that matters.
05snopro440
Well-known member
I took the '56 to a local guy who has been doing this for a number of years, and is more into old cars as a rule. He set it up with the Camaro specs, took his time, and got it dialed in. I haven't driven it on the road, as it doesn't have a rear window or trunk lid or hood right now, but I believe it'll be fine.
Glad to hear, that was the right route to use.
