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rustbucket49

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 16, 2008
Messages
194
Location
Texas
I am curious if anyone knows the proper sequence for the use of body filler. I am using an epoxy primer after I take it down to the metal.... So do I put body filler and glaze on top of the epoxy primer or underneath on the bare metal. I have been told that epoxy is good for corrosion prevention while you're doing the body work - so from that I presume you can put filler on top.... Not sure though.
 
Hopefully a bodyman will give us the truth here, but my understanding is epoxy can be over or under filler and etch primer should be on metal only.
 
You can apply bondo over epoxy primer. I prefer to bondo to the metal and then epoxy and fill primer. If you got the whole body to bare metal then I would epoxy it to seal it and then do your bondo work one panel at a time. Then sand the body with 220 or 280 grit and then re-epoxy and fill prime
 
You can apply bondo over epoxy primer. I prefer to bondo to the metal and then epoxy and fill primer. If you got the whole body to bare metal then I would epoxy it to seal it and then do your bondo work one panel at a time. Then sand the body with 220 or 280 grit and then re-epoxy and fill prime

Thanks for the feedback guys.

Gearhead, do you sand the epoxy to rough it up a bit before putting bondo on top??

So final stage would be to sand the epoxy (after bondo and respraying those areas w/ epoxy again) and then spray the high build primer?? Then I presume block sand, glaze fill as necessary, high build as necessary, block, etc. until ready for sealer and color ?? 10-4 ?? Is that right or am I out of wack.

What about acid primer - when do you use bondo w/ that stuff?? What would be the sequence for acid primer?
 
Gearhead has it pretty much right on the money. However if I may add this. On all my restoration projects I alway epoxy prime before filler. The reason I do this is some sckools of thought have it that the filler can actually flash rust the bare metal surface. I must say that I have seen this when striping old body work. I've been doing restorations this way for many years now and not one come back.

On weather you should sand the EP before coating with filler. The produce I use says you don't have to but I usually hit it with a red etch pad just to be safe, but I have done it without and had no troubles as long as I didn't try to sand to soon.
 
Cool, thanks RodGuy. I think I'm on the right track. I have used the acid primer on some pieces as well. How do you handle bondo or glaze w/ that stuff? I know you can't spray acid on top of the filler.... So I presume it goes on top of the acid??

Another scenario - say you have a perfect panel - can you spray a sealer over epoxy and then the color ??
 
Cool, thanks RodGuy. I think I'm on the right track. I have used the acid primer on some pieces as well. How do you handle bondo or glaze w/ that stuff? I know you can't spray acid on top of the filler.... So I presume it goes on top of the acid??

Another scenario - say you have a perfect panel - can you spray a sealer over epoxy and then the color ??

Ok, first you can't apply filler over top of any type of etch primer. Which is what acid primer is. Nor can you put Epoxy Primer (EP) over etch primer. It won't stick. Plus EP already has an etching base in it so that would be over kill. You must first spay over etch primer with a good filler primer and then you can procced to the body filler.

Yes you can spray a sealer over epoxy and then color, but I have never needed to. As long as the prep work is finished down to 600 and you spray in the proper temp range for the paint you should be fine. Sealer is a good insurance policy, but if your experienced and comfortable with your prep work you can save that money. I am also assuming that you are painting a panel that had been striped to bare metal to begin with. If you are spraying over an original substaight you should always use a sealer to prevent the new paint from attacking and sinking into the old base.
 
No big deal on hijack Freak. I am learning here, so your questions are welcome on my threads anytime !!! That goes for anyone else as well. Thanks for the feedback guys. Very helpful. Keep it coming.

Rodguy, that's what I've done. I have some panels w/ acid on them that I put high build on and then skim of body filler to smooth it out. The epoxy I have not jacked with yet, but sounds like I am on the right track.

Sounds like your preference is epoxy instead of acid.... why use epoxy instead of acid?? Some body shops recommend using acid and not EP.... ??
 
These are the steps that I take while doing my body filer and then primer right up to paint.

From bare metal I Epoxy Prime everything. Use what ever Name Brand you like. They are pretty much all the same. I like to give my EP a couple days to cure but it's not absolutely necessary.

I then give the panel I'm going to use filler on a good scrub with a red etch pad. This is equivalent to about 320 sand paper, but I find it faster and you don't take off any material. I just ruffs it up a bit.

Filler work.... this is subjective but this is generally how I do it.
Large open panels I start with 40 grit to ruff out the shape being careful not to take of to much material.
Smaller areas I generally start with 80 grit.
I almost never use any sort of air sander or air board. I find I have better control with hand boards and blocks. It takes more work but the results speak for themselves

Then I move to 80 grit. This is still very aggressive but is good for bringing in the final shape.
It's usually at this point that I know weather or not I need to recoat the panel. I try to do it in one skim if I can. If I know I have a particularly deep area to fill such as a seam on a 1/4 panel I will give that area a fill coat first before I do my full skim coat.

I never ever sand my second coat (if needed) with 40 grit. I begin sanding the second coat with 80 grit.

In either case I'm now finished with 80 grit and I'll move on to 120. I'm now bringing my surface very close to it's final shape. Experience has taught me when to leave one grit and move to the next. The idea being to never remove to much material which will require a re coat. this is important because if you have to re coat anything you must do the entire panel again. if you do a small area you will find as you sand down again that your going to take out to much material from the surrounding area of the re coat and end up with a wavy panel.

The last step on the filler work is 220. some guys think. (even professionals) that 80 or 120 is far enough and start priming. The problem you will run into is that these grits leave very deep valleys in the filler that the primer will bridge. Leaving a small gap under the primer surface. This will later come back to haunt you when you paint the car. After about a week or two you will start to see what looks like scratches, but this is actually your paint surface sinking into these unfilled valleys. I should mention to that the same holds true when doing your filler work. Never ever recoat your filler over top of anything less than 80 grit. The same problem will arise. This is why I try to do all my filler in one coat.

Now you can prime. Use a good quality high build primer and you will be much happier with the results.

Most restorations that I do get primed twice. The first priming is used for my final straightening. If you're not that fussy you can easily get away with one prime.

I use a spray on guide coat which will help to highlight any low areas and also help to show what has been sanded and what needs more sanding.
I start with 220 grit again. Not pushing to hard, I let the sandpaper do the work. You may find some areas showing through to the filler again. At this point your finished with 220 and moving on to 320 grit. I again spay on a guide coat, and then sand with 320 until all the 220 sanding scratches are gone.

At this point I re prime the job.

Now again it depends on how fussy you want to be and also what kind of paint and color your using, but this is how most of my jobs get final sanded ready for paint.

After the re prime I again spay on a guide coat and begin sanding with 400 grit dry paper. I sand just until the orange peal surface is gone. I spay guide coat one more time. Now you have a choice here. I do my final sand with either 600 wet or 800 dry. I usually go with the wet as it is quicker and less dusty. Your now ready to throw on a show quality paint job.

However, now the real work starts.......... the color sanding and polishing.


and everybody thinks it's easy. :D
 
Sounds like your preference is epoxy instead of acid.... why use epoxy instead of acid?? Some body shops recommend using acid and not EP.... ??

Well there are a few different reasons why you would do either. It can depend on the job (read time allowed) or just personal preference. As I said earlier, most good EP produces already have an etch in them so I find it's one less step I need to do. I also like EP because it has better moister hold out than etch primer and urethane primer surfacer. This is good when you're on a long term job that may sit for spell while your working on other parts of the vehicle. Most regular shops don't us EP because there jobs are in and out. No need of EP in those cases.

Again this is all very subjective. Ask 100 different guys the same question and you likely to get 100 different answers. Basically because guys just develop a way of doing things the way they like and it works for them. The above works for me, and I've never had a come back. I have some cars out there with paint jobs on them that are 25 yrs old and they still look fantastic. Mind you thoughts cars spend most of there life in the garage too.
 
Rodguy, you explained it right on. I agree that the epoxy I use, you can bondo over the top but I also use scuff pads to ruff it up a bit. In answer to the bondo question. Iusually start off with 36 grit and then smooth out with 80 grit. Before I prime I use 150 to 280 grit (depends what I got on hand at that time). 400 grit is what I use to wetsand primer with before painting.
 
RodGuy, you're the man !! Thanks for the time you spent putting that on the thread. That is the most detail anyone has ever given to me on prepping a car. I really appreciate the time. I do have a few more questions -

1. what high build do you use,
2. what product do you use to wipe down the car in bare metal before epoxy,
3. what product do you use between coats to make sure it is doesn't have grease or grime on it?? Do you use a solvent between coats (say between primer and color) to make sure it's clean ???

One more question - CAN YOU COME DO MY RIDE ON THE CHEAP !!! ???? :D:D
 
Thats really impressive roddguy1! I'd really like to see some shots of your work sometime. Now I remember why I could never be a good body man. I sure as hell don't have the patience to do all that. I totally repect those who can but I'm more of a rattle can it and forget it kind of guy!
 
RodGuy, you're the man !! Thanks for the time you spent putting that on the thread. That is the most detail anyone has ever given to me on prepping a car. I really appreciate the time. I do have a few more questions -

1. what high build do you use,
2. what product do you use to wipe down the car in bare metal before epoxy,
3. what product do you use between coats to make sure it is doesn't have grease or grime on it?? Do you use a solvent between coats (say between primer and color) to make sure it's clean ???

One more question - CAN YOU COME DO MY RIDE ON THE CHEAP !!! ???? :D:D

Your welcome rustbucket, I don't mind helping out at all. Now for your questions.

1. I use mostly Standox products at my shop, but I do like the PPG line as well.

2. Any good wax a grease removing solvent with work. Talk to you local paint supplier for that one. Just don't use anything like laquer thinner of varsol. These will leave a film behind.

3. Again your best to use a good wax and grease solvent specifaly made for this job.

Oh and your last question.................


ummmmm



NO ;)
 
Thats really impressive roddguy1! I'd really like to see some shots of your work sometime. Now I remember why I could never be a good body man. I sure as hell don't have the patience to do all that. I totally repect those who can but I'm more of a rattle can it and forget it kind of guy!

As per your wish Thunder. Here are a few pics of some of the jobs I've done. If your interested you can see more details of my work at my web sight. www.riotzcreations.com.
 

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