dawg
Well-known member
can someone here let me in on the secrets of using Buick drums on a set of Ford spindles, also the diferences between using the 45 fin, and 90 fin variations? TIA...
Buick brakes?...
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donsrods
Well-known member
Yep, we have them on two cars. First off, the 90 fin are the later ones, I think the 45's were from '57 to '61 maybe. Ours are '59's with 45 fins. I think they look more oldtimey than the 90 fins ones, but I also think they are the same installationwise.
To do the job you need two good drums (hold onto your wallet, they are fetching big money now for good, usable ones) and two early Ford front hubs. If memory serves me correctly, you need the hubs from like 1946-48. They are the ones where the flange on the hub is on the OUTSIDE of the original Ford drum. (Some were made with a hub that removed from the INSIDE of the drum, you do not want these)
You will press out the studs and remove the hubs and machine them on a lathe so that they just slip into the empty Buick drums (by empty I mean the Buick hubs have been removed by drilling out the rivits) Once you get that fit, you drill new holes through the Ford pattern and through the Buick drums so that you can install new, long studs from the back. That is the OLD way to do them.
Recently, Wilson Welding has developed brand new Ford type hubs for this swap, and they are already made to size, and feature a steel ring that goes inside to weld your studs to. They sell a little arbor to drill the holes in the exact spot for like $ 5.00 or so, BUY IT. I didn't know it existed, and a local machine shop ripped me off for something like $ 175 to drill 10 lug bolt holes.
With the arbor you can do it yourself on any drill press.
Here is the site for Wilson Welding. Best people around and great products too. I have posted a couple of pictures of my set of Buick drums, and also the ones on my Kids '29. He is also using their finned backing plates which are a work of art, and feature late model self energizing brakes.
www.wilsonweldingandmachine.com/
BTW, if anyone tells you '40 Ford brakes with Buick drums won't stop your rod.................that is BS. I had a set on my '27 for 7 years of day in day out driving, and it stopped like ABS braking. And on my new T I made some very fast stops the other night while doing my burnout routine and it stopped straight and fast. These things rock on a lightweight car.
Don
To do the job you need two good drums (hold onto your wallet, they are fetching big money now for good, usable ones) and two early Ford front hubs. If memory serves me correctly, you need the hubs from like 1946-48. They are the ones where the flange on the hub is on the OUTSIDE of the original Ford drum. (Some were made with a hub that removed from the INSIDE of the drum, you do not want these)
You will press out the studs and remove the hubs and machine them on a lathe so that they just slip into the empty Buick drums (by empty I mean the Buick hubs have been removed by drilling out the rivits) Once you get that fit, you drill new holes through the Ford pattern and through the Buick drums so that you can install new, long studs from the back. That is the OLD way to do them.
Recently, Wilson Welding has developed brand new Ford type hubs for this swap, and they are already made to size, and feature a steel ring that goes inside to weld your studs to. They sell a little arbor to drill the holes in the exact spot for like $ 5.00 or so, BUY IT. I didn't know it existed, and a local machine shop ripped me off for something like $ 175 to drill 10 lug bolt holes.
With the arbor you can do it yourself on any drill press.Here is the site for Wilson Welding. Best people around and great products too. I have posted a couple of pictures of my set of Buick drums, and also the ones on my Kids '29. He is also using their finned backing plates which are a work of art, and feature late model self energizing brakes.
www.wilsonweldingandmachine.com/
BTW, if anyone tells you '40 Ford brakes with Buick drums won't stop your rod.................that is BS. I had a set on my '27 for 7 years of day in day out driving, and it stopped like ABS braking. And on my new T I made some very fast stops the other night while doing my burnout routine and it stopped straight and fast. These things rock on a lightweight car.
Don
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dawg
Well-known member
I have a full set of front brakes from a Ford F1, but I would rather use the Buick drums on the front. Is there a backing plate that you know of that is a 12" and is self energising? Someone told me I needed to find some from a 39 Lincoln? I'm also curious if the hubs I have could be used?...
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donsrods
Well-known member
Same place, Wilson Welding. They have brand new Lincoln setups. Not cheap, but good stuff and by the time you add up individual prices it is a good way to go.
As for my Son's 29, it is getting a total revamp. He simply looked at it one day and decided he didn't care for the direction it had gone. So, he kept the body, front end, and engine and tranny, and either sold the rest on Ebay (air bag suspension, headlights, Model A grille, etc) or gave the rest to his Brother and me.
He has gotten a new Brookville Model A bed, and had Autoweld in PA bend up mandrel bent back half kit complete with 9 inch Ford rear, Posies quarter eliptics, and four bar suspension. For the front he is building a new frame with SoCal hairpins and Deuce grille shell. He even sold the wide whites to his Brother and is going to use blackwalls of a different size.
He was PO'd at me for telling this on another forum as people started PM'ing him asking questions. He wanted to unveil it himself, I guess. But now that the cat is out of the bag (and I am in the doghouse
) it can't hurt.I thought he was nuts at first, but he has this vision and once he gets something in his mind the UPS guy starts showing up daily.
Sorry to hijack the thread........................... Back to Buick brakes.
Don
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Gastrick
One of the Dirty Dozen!
Dawg, like Don said you can get the repro 39 Lincoln backing plates from Wilson. They are self energizing. I doubt that you will find a factory pair anywhere.
Or you can use the backing plates from an F-2 3/4 ton truck. They are 12" and self energizing.
I just ordered some Lincoln backing plates and hubs from a Wilson dealer. I also just scored some 45 fin Buick drums from ebay. I'll be doing this conversion on my 32 after the Daytona Turkey run.
Don, did you have to turn the outer lip of your Buick drums to clear the outside edge of the backing plate?
Or you can use the backing plates from an F-2 3/4 ton truck. They are 12" and self energizing.
I just ordered some Lincoln backing plates and hubs from a Wilson dealer. I also just scored some 45 fin Buick drums from ebay. I'll be doing this conversion on my 32 after the Daytona Turkey run.
Don, did you have to turn the outer lip of your Buick drums to clear the outside edge of the backing plate?
R Pope
Well-known member
When you score your Buick drums, grab the brakes and backing plates too. They can be adapted to the Ford spindles.
Check the boundary between the liner and the aluminum on the drums. They can corrode real bad and warp so that they can not be turned. When machining, do not cut any of the lining. Only the aluminum that interfers with the backing plates.If the lining is cut,the shoes will overhang the drum surface. The drums are then scrap as for as I am concerened.
dawg
Well-known member
I was thinking you could bore the center of the Buick backing plates, and machine a spacer? The drums I got are pretty nice, with only .003 and .004 runout. They are the 90 fin versions though...
donsrods
Well-known member
The hubs you actually need are the Ford hubs that mount on the OUTSIDE of the drum. Ford made two in this era, one hub mounts inside and one mounts outside. I think these were used on 46-48 cars, but don't hold me to that.
A good alternative to these are the hub kits sold by Wilson Welding (I think that is what Gastrick used?) The Ford ones are getting harder to find.
Don
Gastrick
One of the Dirty Dozen!
Yes, it's the 46-48 hubs that are required. These are the hubs that mount on the outside of the drum. And Don is correct, I am using the Wilson welding hubs. Another advantage of the Wilson Welding hub is that they are drilled for multiple wheel bolt patterns in the event that you are not using Ford 5 on 5.5 wheels. The factory hubs can't be redrilled. I am still in the process of installing these parts.
Youngster, it is the drum itself that needs (in some cases) that requires turning in order to clear he outer lip of the backing plates.
