Chop shop question

[Willowbilly3]

Hypothetically speaking; if I part out a vehicle that I have the title to, how much and what part would the title remain with? The rest would get crushed, hypothetically of course.

 

[soltz]

if the body has a vin or serial no. I would think the title would go with that [S

 

[CR55]

Yep, the body

 

[Dr Crankenstein]

I've had my eye on a local car for parts. If I get my hands on it, I'll piece it out and keep the bare shell for its ID tag and title. I don't know where the legalities start and stop but I'd think the cowl or a good section of it (in this case) would be enough.

.

 

[IAM-LDS-2]

Best to ask YOUR state DMV .

 

[maverickmk]

I've often wondered this myself. When I see someone take a completely clapped out muscle car and replace everything except some of the few inner structures of the body, does it really constitute the "original" car? I think its VIN swapping. But I guess you could say if the cowl where the VIN plate attaches to the vehicle is still in tact then that is in essence still the original vehicle. [S[S

 

[donsrods]

I think the title would go with the body and maybe the frame, but certainly the body at least. Things like engines, transmissions, rear ends, etc get changed out without altering the title, but the numbers stamped on the body (and sometimes frame) tie those components to the formal title.

For example, I just scrapped the extra Cadillac I had bought as a donor car for the motor for mine, and the scrap yard needed either to see the title or a signed bill of sale before they would take it. It was just a bare hulk of a body, but they needed to verify it matched the title.

Don

 

[Torchie]

I think the title would go with the body and maybe the frame, but certainly the body at least. Things like engines, transmissions, rear ends, etc get changed out without altering the title, but the numbers stamped on the body (and sometimes frame) tie those components to the formal title.

For example, I just scrapped the extra Cadillac I had bought as a donor car for the motor for mine, and the scrap yard needed either to see the title or a signed bill of sale before they would take it. It was just a bare hulk of a body, but they needed to verify it matched the title.

Don

Same here in Michigan Don.
To legaly scrap a car it needs a title or what the state is now calling a scrap certificate.
In other words proof of ownership.
To get around this some guys are cutting the car hulks up into pieces. Some scrap yards will take them as long as they don't look like a car body or frame.
The other thing to consider is the age of the vehicles. On old Fords(pre vin tags) the number on the engine block matched the one stamped into the frame. So if you have a Model A with a stock but replaced engine what does the DMV go by. Numbers on the frame(if they can find them) or the engine block?
Gets kind of confusing at times.[S

 

[GJunktionMike]

What ever has the public vin plate on it. A typically it would go with the cab if the public vin tag is fixed to the cab. But if you are selling the frame (and it has a stamped vin) and crushing the cab it is helpful to the person buying the frame to have the title. Or like some of the old ford trucks the Public vin plate was on the back of the glove box door(I am not giving any ideas, just saying). But the other side to this is on the buyer, If you take a cab from one truck and put it on the frame of another truck (providing both have numbers somewhere on them) you still will have to get the DMV to combined the titles (some states don't care) Because if the truck is ever sold and moved to a state like Colorado, you will have to go through all the BS of applying for a new title if the Numbers don't match.

Don and Mav Hit the nail on the head.

 

[donsrods]

I've been scrapping left over pieces off the donor Caddy, and one day I took a load of scrap steel to the yard down the street and they would not take the catalytic converter unless I gave them a statement, on my letterhead, as to what car I took it off of. So many are being stolen and sold for scrap that a new law here makes the scrap yard get documentation from you.

One night the new car dealer up the street from our shop had about 50 convertors cut off of new cars, so I guess it is a real problem. I have heard of people in SUV's and tall pickups coming out of a restaurant and their convertor was gone ! Thieves are SO brazen.

Don

 

[Neto]

I scrapped out a 93 Chrysler Town & Country, and the VIN plate is actually attached to the dash pad. I hauled the whole vehicle off in pieces, and was never asked for the title. When I turned in the Cat. Conv. they asked me what vehicle it was from, but I assumed that that gave them the price, because they looked it up on a chart.

 

[maverickmk]

What ever has the public vin plate on it. A typically it would go with the cab if the public vin tag is fixed to the cab. But if you are selling the frame (and it has a stamped vin) and crushing the cab it is helpful to the person buying the frame to have the title. Or like some of the old ford trucks the Public vin plate was on the back of the glove box door(I am not giving any ideas, just saying). But the other side to this is on the buyer, If you take a cab from one truck and put it on the frame of another truck (providing both have numbers somewhere on them) you still will have to get the DMV to combined the titles (some states don't care) Because if the truck is ever sold and moved to a state like Colorado, you will have to go through all the BS of applying for a new title if the Numbers don't match.

Don and Mav Hit the nail on the head.

A "public" VIN was federally mandated in 1968. It was that every new vehicle sold in the US had to have a VIN tag that was easily read/seen without having to open any doors/hoods etc. Prior to that the manufacturer could put the tag anywhere they pleased.
Can you tell I've had some experience in dealing with titles & VIN's?

 

[Willowbilly3]

Let's say the vin plate is on the door post. I sell the roof, back section of the cab, firewall & cowl and floor pan, then the passenger side cowl post, then the right frame rail and back half of the left one. The vin plate and frame numbers are still intact but pretty much nothing is left. Or take it a step further and keep just that section of the frame and the drivers door post. Where do you suppose the line is drawn legally? Could I sell the frame section and door post and call it a truck, since I carved every other piece off and sold it?

 

[maverickmk]

I know of people that have cut out the portion of the vehicle that the VIN tag is attached to and sold that with a title. It's illegal, but it happens all the time. Someone buys a clapped out LS6 Chevelle and buys a clean 6 cylinder Malibu of the same year. Slap the LS6 VIN in the Malibu, drop in a BBC and sell it for mucho pesos. It's not hard to find the rosette rivets either.

 

[Sam_Fear]

Where do you suppose the line is drawn legally? Could I sell the frame section and door post and call it a truck, since I carved every other piece off and sold it?

It's probably drawn about the time you start cutting up the cab. After that, it's how convincing is the story you are telling a judge? Or how much does the DMV care?

 

[GJunktionMike]

It's probably drawn about the time you start cutting up the cab. After that, it's how convincing is the story you are telling a judge? Or how much does the DMV care?

I would agree with Sam. I know there are plenty of people out there that would spend a dollar to save a dime just because they think it is the easy way out. I for one would not try to pull a stunt like using a title and vin forsake of getting around the DMV. A lot of guys out there have and will do it, at some point in time the DMV will crack down on it.

A couple years ago here in GJ, if you built or claimed to have built a trailer you could pull it down to the DMV. They would look it over and look for a vin, make you fill out a statement of fact (I john doe built this trailer out of scrap) give you a new vin plate and sent you on your way. After they busted a guy that was flipping stolen trailer for homemade ones that came to a stop. Now it is a trip to the highway patrol for a vin inspection. If they don't think you are on the level you don't get your paper work them, no paper work from the HP no title.

 

[sgtpontiac]

Yep.....

Same here in Michigan Don.
To legaly scrap a car it needs a title or what the state is now calling a scrap certificate.
In other words proof of ownership.
To get around this some guys are cutting the car hulks up into pieces. Some scrap yards will take them as long as they don't look like a car body or frame.
The other thing to consider is the age of the vehicles. On old Fords(pre vin tags) the number on the engine block matched the one stamped into the frame. So if you have a Model A with a stock but replaced engine what does the DMV go by. Numbers on the frame(if they can find them) or the engine block?
Gets kind of confusing at times.[S

Must have title / proof of ownership to scrap a vehicle in MI...the scrapers that take chopped up vehicles better be careful doing it...could bite them in the butt...that would be metal that I would crush up and ship out quickly...lol..

 

[Sam_Fear]

To answer your first question, I think the title should stay with the cab if it still has a tag. If the cab tag is gone and the frame has #'s, then the title goes with the frame. Just my opinion, not based on any fact.