How would you chop it?

[jmlcolorado]

Finally bringing home the next project.
1953 Chrysler New Yorker Delux and a 1954 New Yorker parts car.

I want to chop the top on the car but the rear window is going to be a challenge.
Wanting to hear some input on how you would do it.
I'd love to get 4-5" out of the whole thing.
Below are photos of the same model car to show the concerns and the last one is a photo of my thoughts.

As a last resort, I'll cut the whole window out and install a large oval out of something, but I'd really like to just modify what Chrysler has given me.

Disclaimer, none of these are my cars, just didn't have photos of mine at the right angles yet for discussion.






I will have to do a slice across the width of the roof anyways since I don't want to lean the A pillers back, so my thinking was to fatten up the C pillar and add metal at the above the rear glass.

That wing window on the rear door is going to fight me too.


I'm aware the glass will be fun to get right, but I'm not scared. I had success the first round on the truck windsheild and I thought I'd fail miserably. I'll just have to go a little slower on this glass

 

[Blue Eyed Devil]

How would I do it?

Two door conversion, might as well lean the B pillars while you are at it. Lose the funky backlight and backwards C pillar - Chrysler certainly didn't help there, and neither are conducive to a good chop. Use a early 50's Chevy backlight, and possibly quarter window frames. Make new sail panels for a nice smooth transition. Good bit of metal work, but would make for a cool and unique custom...

 

[jmlcolorado]

How would I do it?

Two door conversion, might as well lean the B pillars while you are at it. Lose the funky backlight and backwards C pillar - Chrysler certainly didn't help there, and neither are conducive to a good chop. Use a early 50's Chevy backlight, and possibly quarter window frames. Make new sail panels for a nice smooth transition. Good bit of metal work, but would make for a cool and unique custom...

Yeah. Guess I'm a glutton for punishment
I'm going to keep the 4 door since this is geard to be the family wagon to haul everyone around.
That whole back half is going to be a pain. But at least the rear wing glass is stationary!

 

[Neto]

... at least the rear wing glass is stationary!

My folks had a 53 DeSoto (my younger brother still has it), and as I recall, that rear wing opened. Wouldn't the Chrysler be the same? (Or maybe I don't understand what you mean by 'stationary'.)

 

[Torchie]

If it was a 2 dr you could slide the rear widow forward to meet the lowered roof. But since it is not......
There is a lot of area over that rear window. Leave the window alone. Cut out around it. Bring the roof down which will bring the rear window up into the roof. Taking some of the bubble out of it. Split the roof (possibly in 2 places) and put in some spacer metal so that you don't have to move the pillars at all . It will retain the some what stock look but only lower.
Not sure that you can get 4-5" but you will know once you try.[ddd
Hope this made sense.
Torchie

 

[Torchie]

Here is a link to a 4 door chevy chop. Not exactly the same as yours but it may contain some info that you can use.
Torchie
http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/threads/54-chevy-4-door-chop-questions.1034735/#post-11717344

 

[jmlcolorado]

My folks had a 53 DeSoto (my younger brother still has it), and as I recall, that rear wing opened. Wouldn't the Chrysler be the same? (Or maybe I don't understand what you mean by 'stationary'.)

Dangit, you're right. I thought they were locked in like the rear glass and not movable. Good news is they are binged on the front edge, so it won't be bad to modify. The wing windows with the pivot points in the middle of the frames are the ones that screw me up.

If it was a 2 dr you could slide the rear widow forward to meet the lowered roof. But since it is not......
There is a lot of area over that rear window. Leave the window alone. Cut out around it. Bring the roof down which will bring the rear window up into the roof. Taking some of the bubble out of it. Split the roof (possibly in 2 places) and put in some spacer metal so that you don't have to move the pillars at all . It will retain the some what stock look but only lower.
Not sure that you can get 4-5" but you will know once you try.[ddd
Hope this made sense.
Torchie

Yes that makes perfect sense. I was actually thinking about that but doing that I would need to cut a wedge out of the sides, in order to lay the window flatter. Which still might be easier than re engineering the framing for it then cutting glass to fit.

Here is a link to a 4 door chevy chop. Not exactly the same as yours but it may contain some info that you can use.
Torchie
http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/threads/54-chevy-4-door-chop-questions.1034735/#post-11717344

Awesome! I appreciate that!

 

[jmlcolorado]

Printed out a few copies on paper and went to chopping this afternoon.
This shows me that yes, I would need to split the roof width wise twice. Once in front in the wing window, and again right behind the forward frame of the rear wing window. Then I can drop the whole center down. Not sure if I would have to split length wise on the car to widen the whole roof, but I presume so.

It also shows the expanded "c" pillar I was thinking about.

This method leaves very little rear window, so Torchie, you might be onto something with leaving the rear glass full sized.

Also shows dropped suspension.
Of course this isn't to scale. I'm sure I took 5-6" out of the whole thing, which might be a little overzealous compared to reality......but hey, it looks cool

 

[Torchie]

A couple of things. Check that rear glass as it may be tempered and not laminate. If it is tempered you won't be able to cut it.
So that leaves you a few choices. Buy an after market offshore rear glass. Some of them are being reproduced in laminate and not tempered.Then you can cut it.
Or you can get some aircraft windshield acrylic sheeting and cut and bend your own rear glass to the size that you need. This was done more often then many realized once the wrap around rear windows came in to style.
The Famous "Moonglow" custom Chevy had this as well as the Barris built Larry Ernst Chevy Bellaire Hardtop. The Ernst Chevy had a 3 piece rear glass so they layed the center section down and made the curved corner pieces out of acrylic. The Moonglow had the 1 piece wrap around.
Don't remember if your Chrysler has the 3 piece or not. If it does it would be easier....Perhaps.[ddd
I seem to remember that a guy that chopped one of these also split the roof length wise as you spoke about. As I recalled he may have put the length wise split down both sides of the roof. Near to the rain gutters. I recall that he had some issues with getting a dolly under the weld to hammer it so you may want to bear that in mind.
All in all a lot of work. But that is why you don't see a lot of chopped 4 doors.[ddd [cl
Torchie
[P[P [P

 

[Neto]

Dangit, you're right. I thought they were locked in like the rear glass and not movable. Good news is they are hinged on the front edge, so it won't be bad to modify. The wing windows with the pivot points in the middle of the frames are the ones that screw me up.

Well, I spent a lot of time beside one of those windows, although most of the time my two older brothers got the window seats. I have always thought that it was a bad day when they stopped putting the wing windows in cars.

 

[Bamamav]

You might be able to drop the rear window straight down into the package tray area. Then you could have the sides come up close, but not touching the glass. Or you could use a rubber strip, think like a wiper blade, to seal against the glass at the top of the fender.

 

[Sam_Fear]

Well, since 2dr is out, I might not cut the roof and just slide the whole thing forward. I you try to fill the C-pillar to move the rear window back, it'll force the window downward and then it'll be so short you won't be able to see out of it or you'll have an odd angle that'll look....well, odd. The A and C pillars look to be the same angle. You'd have to extend the rear pan to make up the distance which might throw the cars proportions off? And yeah, odds are you can't cut that rear - so dropping it into the tray might be the only option.

As for splitting the roof long ways, you may be able to pancake it enough to not have to do a full slice. I like the idea of working along the edges more than that middle warp zone.

The rear wing window - you'll have to cut all four sides.

 

[Old Iron]

Hell no I wouldn't but, I'd love to see you do it [P[P[P

 

[Skip]

OK. Somebody has to say it. Just because a car can be chopped, doesn't mean it should be, or that it will look better that way. Old Mopars are already pushing the limits on tub-to-lighthouse proportions. Again, my opinion. The new Chargers and Magnum wagons are the same dang way. Sectioning some of these cars would do more for them than a chop. After a lot of Photochopping on my '50 Plymouth, I decided that it didn't need it. And it is a 2-door coupe.

How about leaving the glass area alone, and taking about half the crown out of the roof top? That would bring it down a couple inches and leave the crowd scratching their heads trying to figure out what you did to it. OR... You could even swap out the entire roof skin for a later model flatter piece. Maybe gain 3 or 4 inches that way.

If you decide to bring the entire thing down, I agree with Bama. I have seen the entire top dropped in one piece on a 56 chevy. There was an article in Custom Rodder 25 or 30 years ago. It was ugly, but it worked. They made a well, and dropped it into it.

 

[jmlcolorado]

Well, since 2dr is out, I might not cut the roof and just slide the whole thing forward. I you try to fill the C-pillar to move the rear window back, it'll force the window downward and then it'll be so short you won't be able to see out of it or you'll have an odd angle that'll look....well, odd. The A and C pillars look to be the same angle. You'd have to extend the rear pan to make up the distance which might throw the cars proportions off? And yeah, odds are you can't cut that rear - so dropping it into the tray might be the only option.

As for splitting the roof long ways, you may be able to pancake it enough to not have to do a full slice. I like the idea of working along the edges more than that middle warp zone.

The rear wing window - you'll have to cut all four sides.

Yeah, in the paper moch up, the rear window did end up basically unusable.
I'm now curious as to how the glass is made. I think I'll dig into that this weekend during the daylight and see. If it's tempered it'll change the whole plan I think.

OK. Somebody has to say it. Just because a car can be chopped, doesn't mean it should be, or that it will look better that way. Old Mopars are already pushing the limits on tub-to-lighthouse proportions. Again, my opinion. The new Chargers and Magnum wagons are the same dang way. Sectioning some of these cars would do more for them than a chop. After a lot of Photochopping on my '50 Plymouth, I decided that it didn't need it. And it is a 2-door coupe.

How about leaving the glass area alone, and taking about half the crown out of the roof top? That would bring it down a couple inches and leave the crowd scratching their heads trying to figure out what you did to it. OR... You could even swap out the entire roof skin for a later model flatter piece. Maybe gain 3 or 4 inches that way.

If you decide to bring the entire thing down, I agree with Bama. I have seen the entire top dropped in one piece on a 56 chevy. There was an article in Custom Rodder 25 or 30 years ago. It was ugly, but it worked. They made a well, and dropped it into it.

You provide a fair arguement. I didn't really think about flattening the top out. That would certainly change it up a bit.
I still feel like the car has a lot of......uh.....for lack of a better word, material above the belt line. I've always likes the chopped look, and I think this one appeals to me because it's complicated.

 

[jmlcolorado]

You might be able to drop the rear window straight down into the package tray area. Then you could have the sides come up close, but not touching the glass. Or you could use a rubber strip, think like a wiper blade, to seal against the glass at the top of the fender.

I've heard of this method before but I can't wrap my head around how it's really done.
I don't suppose you know of an example I can reference do you? I've heard of guys doing it with windshields to avoid cutting them up, but haven't come across one myself. I'm very interested in how this is done.

 

[Torchie]

I've heard of this method before but I can't wrap my head around how it's really done.
I don't suppose you know of an example I can reference do you? I've heard of guys doing it with windshields to avoid cutting them up, but haven't come across one myself. I'm very interested in how this is done.

Hard to find pics of this method because if done correctly you can really see it.
Here are the basics....
You cut a slot into the window channel area where the lower edge of the glass would sit that allows you to lower/slide the window down to the height that you want.
Then you fab a new channel or brackets for the lower edge of the glass to sit in.
You the take the rubber seal and slice a slot in the bottom as well so that once installed it looks like the glass is sealed all the way around.
Some of the drawbacks to this method are....
1. Making sure that the glass is sealed and doesn't leak.
2. I can't say that I have ever seen it done with a much of a chop as you are hoping for. But that doesn't mean that it hasn't been done.[ddd
3. In some aspects this is more work than just trying to figure out how to use the stock window or cut it down.
Rumor has it that when they did the chop on the American Graffiti Merc they ran out of time so they did the lower the glass into the body thing.

You might think about these options as well.
Looking at another rear window of a different style i.e. smaller and using that. This may be the best option as then you can shape the rear of the roof area as well.

Or once again. Making your own rear light out of aircraft windshield acrylic to fit the opening that you come up with.
Here is a rear shot of the Moonglow with the acrylic rear window that Duane Steck and his brother made. I believe that they used their mothers home oven to heat the each end of the sheet to get it to curve. But I have heard of people cold bending it as well.
Keep at it.
Torchie

 

[Sam_Fear]

As for leaking, you can build a catch tray around the underside of the rear glass with a drain tube. That's how Olds did my rear sliders.

 

[Neto]

Well, since 2dr is out, I might not cut the roof and just slide the whole thing forward. I you try to fill the C-pillar to move the rear window back, it'll force the window downward and then it'll be so short you won't be able to see out of it or you'll have an odd angle that'll look....well, odd. The A and C pillars look to be the same angle. You'd have to extend the rear pan to make up the distance which might throw the cars proportions off? And yeah, odds are you can't cut that rear - so dropping it into the tray might be the only option.

This is what I think I would consider the best option, but possibly also cutting the window up into the rear of the roof more (a bit more of a "fast-back" look). Otherwise, the top edge of rear window looks really low. But I didn't cut a photo, so I don't know how the car would look with a longer deck. I THINK it would look OK. Maybe it would even make it look more like a coupe, while keeping all 4 doors, sort of shrinking the appearance of the cabin's length.

 

[Torchie]

As for leaking, you can build a catch tray around the underside of the rear glass with a drain tube. That's how Olds did my rear sliders.

Sam is correct in mentioning drains.
My last (Promise) bit of advice to you is to find someone proficient in Photoshop and have them work their magic. It will save you a lot of guess work and if they are good at it they can tell you exactly what they did for reference.
There may be somebody on this site that could do it or another site as well.
Rik Hovings CCC(Custom Car Chronicle) site has a section on the forum that is devoted to strictly photo shopped customs.
Torchie