Here's the pics of the front axle setting in place and only supported by a jack stand under the axle and hairpins are bolted in the original hole in the frame from the butchered axle I removed. Now question is,,,,I want to install a 3 inch round tube to support the leaf spring and looks like I have to keep the kickups on the frame but should I mount the hairpins under the frame other than where they are now and will that lower the ride. I believe if I got rid of the kickups it might set me too high. Opinions?????????
I got the front axle setting in place, now what?
- Thread starter Bearcamp
- Start date
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rex1927
Well-known member
Nice project
There are others on here that know a lot more than I do,but the radius rods need to be as near level as possible at ride height.Yours look pretty good right there as long as they do not rub on frame.
There are others on here that know a lot more than I do,but the radius rods need to be as near level as possible at ride height.Yours look pretty good right there as long as they do not rub on frame.
Blue Eyed Devil
Devil's Advocate
If you had went with a spring-behind setup you could have gotten rid of some of that kickup, but with what you have it is going to need some. Regradless I would not use those radius rod mounts as they are pushing the axle way too far out IMO. It is going to look and handle much better if you get the axle as close to the grille as possible. Also you need to run the heims & clevis joints about halfway out so you have some adjustment - right now it looks like they are almost all the way in. And I know you are just mocking up right now, but remember to put some caster in that axle! You need about 7-10 degrees for proper handling.
Cut off the kick ups. Extend the frame straight out. Use a crossmember with about the same curve as your spring pack. It will look WAY cleaner. Not sure how structurally sound that would be so you might also need a crossmember straight across?
Are his shackles at a good angle or do they need to be at 45* unloaded?
Are his shackles at a good angle or do they need to be at 45* unloaded?
Blue Eyed Devil
Devil's Advocate
The shackles are good. You want them at 45 degrees LOADED. When unloaded they are usually close to level.
rainman
Rough Rodder
First you need to decide if you want the front end to stick out as far as it seems to!! It seems kind of far out there in the pics!!
If it's too far out, you'll need to remount the rear of the hairpins!
If the front is where you want, the next step would be to determine if you can get enough caster in the front with the adjustment you have !!!
Question, do you undersatnd what caster is???
If you do you'll need to be able to get at most around 10 degrees, minimum of around 4 degrees!! If you can't get that much caster wit it sitting at ride height, you'll have to relocate the rear mounting point of the hairpins!!
(lower, or higher) as to what is needed!!
As far as the frame goes if you're happy with the way the kick up looks now, it can be extended and be made to work! Personally I wouldn't just butt weld extentions onto the ends, I would cut the angle weld and reweld it right there, it would be a little cleaner!! Whatever you do, make sure a person who knows what their doing welds these critical areas!!
More pics that show the entire layout would help, these are just a few ideas.
One other thing to remember, take the WHOLE thing into consideration BEFORE you weld anything!! It's always easier to do it once!!
If it's too far out, you'll need to remount the rear of the hairpins!
If the front is where you want, the next step would be to determine if you can get enough caster in the front with the adjustment you have !!!
Question, do you undersatnd what caster is???
If you do you'll need to be able to get at most around 10 degrees, minimum of around 4 degrees!! If you can't get that much caster wit it sitting at ride height, you'll have to relocate the rear mounting point of the hairpins!!
(lower, or higher) as to what is needed!!
As far as the frame goes if you're happy with the way the kick up looks now, it can be extended and be made to work! Personally I wouldn't just butt weld extentions onto the ends, I would cut the angle weld and reweld it right there, it would be a little cleaner!! Whatever you do, make sure a person who knows what their doing welds these critical areas!!
More pics that show the entire layout would help, these are just a few ideas.
One other thing to remember, take the WHOLE thing into consideration BEFORE you weld anything!! It's always easier to do it once!!
Blue Eyed Devil
Devil's Advocate
Minimum SEVEN degrees caster.
Blue Eyed Devil
Devil's Advocate
Yes, you can.
King Herald
Well-known member
Also remember that you don't need your spring at 7 degrees to match the castor. Your spring needs to line up with the movement of your axle up and down, virtually vertical, dictated by your hairpin pivot location, so that the spring compresses evenly in a single plane, rather than pulling back and forth as the axle goes up and down. (It actually moved in a very slight radius around the hairpin pivots, but it is minimal)
That is something I have discovered over a couple of builds, where people tell you to put your spring perch at 7 degrees..... Why??
Most people seem to get away with it, but it doesn't seem logical to build something wrong to start with.
That is something I have discovered over a couple of builds, where people tell you to put your spring perch at 7 degrees..... Why??
Most people seem to get away with it, but it doesn't seem logical to build something wrong to start with.
Yes i can move the hairpins back towards the rear but,,,,,the further back I go the wider the frame gets. Right now where they are I had to spread them. That's why I was wondering if I can put my mounts under the frame? Also how would I set the ride height? Do I get my wheels and tires, both em on and them set everything? Also how should I measure for the back spacing for the disc brakes as to what wheels I can use.
gold03
He lives in an "Altered State"!
[S
It looks like you are committed to a long front end. I don't mind it, but would do a couple of things to improve the aesthetics a little. instead of the two angles on the kick up, I think your ride would look better if you had rounded gradual curves. Like the cab does.
Think about cutting some cardboard patterns out and laying them over the frame to compare. The steel can be cut from 3/16 plate and the top and bottom welded from flat bar stock. I have seen pie cuts made in 2X4 tubing and re welded to form curves. The only problem is you have multiple welds to grind and multiple potential failure points.
At the same time you are building the curved frame rails, you could curve it in toward the point where your suicide perch is going to go. The curve would then mimic the curve of your grill.
Then your suicide perch might be able to fit under the spring pack instead of on top of it to lower your overall frame kick up.
just some thoughts.
gold03
It looks like you are committed to a long front end. I don't mind it, but would do a couple of things to improve the aesthetics a little. instead of the two angles on the kick up, I think your ride would look better if you had rounded gradual curves. Like the cab does.
Think about cutting some cardboard patterns out and laying them over the frame to compare. The steel can be cut from 3/16 plate and the top and bottom welded from flat bar stock. I have seen pie cuts made in 2X4 tubing and re welded to form curves. The only problem is you have multiple welds to grind and multiple potential failure points.
At the same time you are building the curved frame rails, you could curve it in toward the point where your suicide perch is going to go. The curve would then mimic the curve of your grill.
Then your suicide perch might be able to fit under the spring pack instead of on top of it to lower your overall frame kick up.
just some thoughts.
gold03
Blue Eyed Devil
Devil's Advocate
You are partially right, but ONLY if you have adjustable spring perches (such as the ones pictured). Otherwise if you are running a traditional spring-over front end with fixed perches (like an original Ford), then you DO need to put the caster in your spring perch. Otherwise you put the spring in a bind. That's why.
King Herald
Well-known member
Good point! Never thought of that, though I did when I put together my current project. My excuse is I'm 10,000 miles from home and haven't seen my car for weeks.
My previous two builds had adjustable spring perches on.
With the original model A set-up I have now I have relieved the poly bushes in the after-market shackles to allow room for the spring to move a little, as there is no way of seeing if it is under 'bind' or not.
I carefully adjusted the length of the hairpins to get the shackles central. And yes, I have 'butchered' the hairpins with heim joints.
RAT FINK
Well-known member
You are going to need as much of the weight on this to determine a ride height including the proper size tires....it will settle as well....I thought I had mine pretty close and still ended up putting in a spacer block to get the front end up and had adjustable coilovers that I had to crank up as well...check out my build on the frame section. I am using a suicide front with spring behind.....I also used 7 degrees caster and 1/8 toe in and it steers fine
