Power window wiring

[zzrodder]

OK, you electrical wizards, I need some help figuring out how I'm going wrong with the wiring on the power windows for my 34 Caddy. I've done this before but this time I just can't get my feeble brain to comprehend how to wire it right.
After cursing out the motors for being duds I realized they just won't work wired this way (it took quite a while ). I get it that these are reversing motors, depending on which wire is powered, it goes up or down. When moving the switch up or down, it feeds power to the motor OK but obviously the power has no way to ground when it returns to the switch [S.
Here's a pic of the layout...

 

[YBeNormal]

How are the motors grounded?

 

[sneakysnake]

Some motors use a mount ground and the two wires will be + up and down depending on which is energized.The others use the same two wires only reverse the polarity to go up and down.This can be done with a DPDT switch or relay.If the switch has 10 or 12 ga wire then it probabaly doesnt use a relay if it has smaller wires then it probaly used a relay.Have you test run the motors to see how they operate?How many wires on switch?

 

[Dr Crankenstein]

Edit: Sneaky got here first. Ha!

I believe you need to wire it so the switch reverses polarity to the motor.

Double pole, double throw switch. Wire like this, or vice versa with the motor crossing terminals and 12V on the center poles. Does that make sense?

 

[sneakysnake]

Edit: Sneaky got here first. Ha!



Verrry,verrry Sneeeaaakkkyyy.

 

[zzrodder]

Thanks for the replies, guys!!
Ever see those commercials where the product is "so simple a caveman can do it" ?? Uuuhhh, I guess the cavemen have one over on me... Technical drawings mystify me, I need pictures of actual parts [S

Here's pics of the motor (Auto Loc), it's a 2 wire reversing motor, no ground wires. The switches I wanted to use look similar to the one on the left, with 3 wires (the 3 wire one in the pic is for door locks, my actual ones are in the car at the upholstery shop).
Am I correct in thinking it is a single pole double throw switch??
I also have a pair of switches like the one on the right - some testing tells me:
- pink is power in
- dark blue is up
- blue/black is down
- dark blue and blue/white are normally active, inactive when switched down
- blue/black and tan are normally active, inactive when switched up

As a wild guess, I'm thinking that grounding the blue/white and tan wires will make it work??

I hate this stuff, I'd rather weld all day upside down in the dark than figger this out


What the #$**!! - pics won't load[S I'll try later.

 

[Dirtyrat]

On a two wire reversing motor, you are switching both power and ground to the motor.

If you have power hooked up to Pink, on down you would power Blue/Black, and Ground to white.

On up you would be switching power to Dark blue, and ground to tan, so my assumption is that both white/blue and tan should be ground and are switched at the switch for proper motor operation.

Sounds like you have it right in my mind.. But pics would help.

 

[zzrodder]

OK, finally got pics to load...

 

[Dr Crankenstein]

So, did you get it straightened out?

 

[sneakysnake]

Best I can tell those switches are for grounded motors and wires are + hot up/down.If thats the case they wont work without putting them through a relay.Here are a couple of diagrams I found that show the difference.

 

[old man dave]

What wires are coming out of the motor? Does it have a diagram?

 

[zzrodder]

So, did you get it straightened out?

Naw, I'm waiting for the car to come back to do some wire crossing and fuse blowing..

Best I can tell those switches are for grounded motors and wires are + hot up/down.If thats the case they wont work without putting them through a relay.Here are a couple of diagrams I found that show the difference.

I've used similar switches for before, just can't remember how I wired them. The 3 wire one on the left in the pic was for a door lock so obviously it won't work for me.
On the 5 wire one on the right: the blue is up, blue/black is down.
An ohm meter shows that the blue/black and tan are connected and it breaks when switched up.
Also the blue and blue/white are connected and that breaks when switched down.
My theory is to ground the tan and blue white wires and it should (might?) work.

The Auto Loc motors are 2 wire types that ground through the switches, they have a green and blue wire.

 

[Dr Crankenstein]

I think you and DR have it. Ground the tan and blue/white. Switch "up" and you should have continuity from ground to blue/black, power at blue. Switch "down", continuity from ground to blue, power at blue/black.