The VINs of pre 1954

[lazarat]

So my 53 Chev, titled in Florida, has the engine number on the title. This engine is long gone as I have the SBC.

I was talking to a guy in the tow business and he said that if my car was ever impounded, it wouldn't be released if they can't associate a VIN to the car, suggested I look on the frame under the driver seat area....not.

Anybody have any inputs on this towing/impound situation?

 

[Old Iron]

Goto dabay and search 1953 Chevy truck vin tag get one stamp your numbers from the title and install.
Use the original screws from your door vin tag to mount it.

 

[05snopro440]

Your car never had a VIN, but should have a serial number on a plate in the upper driver's door jamb. Apparently some cars had the serial number on the frame below the B-pillar, but sounds like that was not a common occurrence.

In any case, any number you would be lucky to find on the frame should match the number on the body. As far as I can tell, the engine number won't be anywhere else on the vehicle.

More info on this thread: https://www.chevytalk.org/fusionbb/showtopic.php?tid/327171/

When my dad imported his 33 Dodge from Montana, which he purchased from a friend, it had been titled with the engine number. On that car, the number was also stamped on the frame, but unfortunately had been covered with a motor mount for the SBF. There was also a serial number in a door jamb on the body but it didn't match the title. In order to import the car, his friend had to send in a correction request for the title and get the title changed to show the body serial number. It took a couple months, but eventually they got it sorted and it was all legal.

You might have to explore if that's an option in your state.

Regarding the towing issue, just imagine that all the documentation that you have shows a number that isn't anywhere on the car. In that case, how do you prove that's legally your car?

It's important to have paperwork correct, even though it can be a pain.

 

[bob w]

Don't let it be impounded.[ddd

 

[lazarat]

I had posted earlier about the VIN on the title matched up to a truck engine with power glide. There was never a tag on the door pillar or anywhere. No evidence of screw or rivet holes anywhere. On the 54 chev the plate is up on the upper driver side door frame by vent window. It is possible an engine was put in the car awhile ago and they reissued a new VIN.

This is a can of worms that may cause me to pay a visit to the DMV, or buy the EBAY plate and fudge it. But I would like to get the full history.

 

[Old Iron]

I work with pickups 99 percent of the time and was under my own impression this was a pickup.
The decision to use a number off a part of the vehicle that never wears out or gets replaced, to register it, was not a good one
The car vin/serial plates are different and in a different place. Do you have a friend to "sell it to"? in a state that is easier to get a title and then transfer it back to you?
Or as was said by bobw, don't let it get impounded.

 

[lazarat]

Do you have a friend to "sell it to"? in a state that is easier to get a title and then transfer it back to you?
Or as was said by bobw, don't let it get impounded.

More info on this thread: https://www.chevytalk.org/fusionbb/showtopic.php?tid/327171/

Snopro, thanks, I am in the process of reading that post. Based on the one story about shenanigans in the plant, it is possible the original car ended up with a truck code. Or....the Q in the code should be a G

The car has a title, has passed hands at least twice before me. It just never had a VIN tag, and I am curious about the engine code itself.

After being on hold for 45 mins I got to talking to a superviser at the DMV main office. She verified that which I already knew about the vins post 54-55.

She said I can't or shouldn't stamp a number anywhere, and that I should probably call the DMV in my county. This may involve getting a salvage title.

I was told by the previous owner that he was told that this was a Truly Nolen car, which is the pest control company that had these cars painted as billboards, so who knows.

On impounds, as long as the car has the plate, you usually show registration and proof of insurance before it is released, but I would like to get the mystery about this number solved.

 

[05snopro440]

There was never a tag on the door pillar or anywhere. No evidence of screw or rivet holes anywhere. On the 54 chev the plate is up on the upper driver side door frame by vent window.

Assuredly, a 1953 Chevy would definitely have a serial number tag on it somewhere originally. It's curious that yours seems to show no remnants of where it should be.

I guess what I'm wondering is if that number on the title isn't anywhere on the car, did you actually see the truck engine it corresponded with? Are you 100% sure that the title you have originally belonged to your car?

Not trying to make this more complex, but some people will do about anything to get a car back on the road.

 

[lazarat]

Assuredly, a 1953 Chevy would definitely have a serial number tag on it somewhere originally. It's curious that yours seems to show no remnants of where it should be.

I guess what I'm wondering is if that number on the title isn't anywhere on the car, did you actually see the truck engine it corresponded with? Are you 100% sure that the title you have originally belonged to your car?

Not trying to make this more complex, but some people will do about anything to get a car back on the road.

I am getting ready to call my county DMV office.

No on the engine sighting, I bought this car from a carpenter that got frustrated with it because he didn't know what he was doing. ("I'm a carpenter, Jim, not a mechanic!")

To add to the mystery there is no record of anything in the classic car VIN decoder, including the truck, Q, and the car ID letters G, and T

Stay tuned [P

 

[bob w]

A word of caution: By calling the DMV, telling them who you are and giving them specifics about your car, you could be opening Pandora's Box. Inviting the DMV in could cause you more grief. My advice: Let the sleeping DMV dogs lie.

 

[lazarat]

A word of caution: By calling the DMV, telling them who you are and giving them specifics about your car, you could be opening Pandora's Box. Inviting the DMV in could cause you more grief. My advice: Let the sleeping DMV dogs lie.

That is exactly what I am going to do. I have the Truly Nolen number for thier cars manager to see if it was one of thiers and thats it

 

[lazarat]

Update

So after phone consults with the DMV, I risked the trip to their main office that handles these matters. Met with 'the pro", who inspected the car, he was also confused by the LAQ, right away said truck, but could not find any other info, and mumbled something about possibly Canada as he was perusing the puter screen..

There is no frame number that I could see, even with a mirror, I know there is frame numbers on the Chev converts, but because they have a different frame, that number is there to match up to the convert body at the factory, which is why that number is squeezed under where the body mounts.

The ID tag that would be on the A pillar, missing, would not match the engine number anyway. In the end, he resorted to the same forums I went too...

If I went to the bootleg tag, which Ebay in US no longer producing stamped, I would be ordering from France, Bulgaria, Netherlands...and guess what, not only illegal, but the engine number stamped on an ID tag that is supposed to have a different number would be a flag to the sharp eyed.

So!....Florida makes a state issued VIN, an adhesive sticker, that requires a Declaratory Judgement, and a lawyer, at a processing fee of 400 bucks. I got with Bay Legal, a free law service, and I will be having a phone interview later today. In the end, I am not obligated, but would like to make sure this car passes all musters. [P

 

[soltz]

Good Luck !!!

 

[smallfoot]

Let me tell you what I went thru which was similar. When I went to register my 31 I had the title but the first words out of their mouth was "does it have the original motor and I laughed...maybe should have held off on that... I said no, I put a factory rebuilt motor in it. The original titles in 1931 went by the motor number. OK, things started to drift to sorry at that point. They handed me an affidavit to sign. On it, they wanted to know what the vin number was on the vehicle that the motor came out of. OK, at that point I was wondering what kind of daft individuals think I should know that...? I explained again that I purchased the motor from a factory and had all the paperwork, including the serial number they assign at the factory in cases like this and they called it a birth certificate. Several different papers and the actual plastic strip that was attached to the motor from the factory was viewed in person when they required me to bring the truck in on a trailer to look for themselves. That was on day two of this fiasco. And I blocked about 6 of there parking spots right in front of the office until I got done. I had to make a trip to the store that I ordered the motor thru to get more info...there was no more info available but the factory actually called them to explain that's the way it is... Well after all the hoops were jumped, I told the lady at the registration office to get her manager...we discussed it for a while before she gave in and oked the title. 3 days but done. What's really ignorant in my opinion, which matters not, I now drive a 1931 Ford 2 door with the title number matching a Chevrolet motor. Jeez I can hardly wait to see what that causes down the road with info like that...It's been 7 years, haven't been pulled over yet...

 

[Neto]

Whose daft idea was it to register vehicles by the engine number? Surely they could have known already by the thirties that engines were often replaced during the life of a vehicle.
The old MoPar manuals from at least in the forties make it plenty clear that the Serial Number is the vehicle's identifier. I've never messed with Ford or Chevy (or any of the orphan makes), so if you all have original repair manuals issued by other manufacturers, I'd be interested to hear if they also pointed to the SN as the identifier.
I DO have one old MoPar that was most likely registered by the engine number, a first series 49 Plymouth. Unfortunately I didn't know that when I pulled the blown engine and scrapped it. (Hole in the side of the block.) It was from Nebraska, and I had originally just bought it as a parts car, but now 40 years later, it's worth getting a title for it. I sent in a request for a lost title search about 15 years ago, but didn't know at that time that any state registered vehicles by the engine number.

 

[Couper]

I have some of my own title issues / questions. Not sure if I asked before but I have no title or VIN plate either. I have a VIN plate coming from a 41 Dodge truck that's legible. My thought is to mount it where it belongs and take some pictures, go to DMV and say I bought it from a guy who lost the title. I'll have a buddy write me up a bill of sale and he'll accept a phone call if required to confirm the sale. Does tat sound like it could work to you guys? Or is there a better way.

The other angle is to buy a title, get a blank VIN plate which I can buy from DCM and have a trophy shop stamp it for me.... maybe that's the better route??

Thanks

 

[lazarat]

I have some of my own title issues / questions. Not sure if I asked before but I have no title or VIN plate either. I have a VIN plate coming from a 41 Dodge truck that's legible. My thought is to mount it where it belongs and take some pictures, go to DMV and say I bought it from a guy who lost the title. I'll have a buddy write me up a bill of sale and he'll accept a phone call if required to confirm the sale. Does tat sound like it could work to you guys? Or is there a better way.

The other angle is to buy a title, get a blank VIN plate which I can buy from DCM and have a trophy shop stamp it for me.... maybe that's the better route??

Thanks

I would be careful with that idea, one slip up and who knows, especially up in Joisy. I did something similar when I replaced my rusty 71 GMC cab with a nice one from a junkyard. I removed both plates, and gave them both with title to the purchaser when I sold it. Even the rivets that hold them are unique and illegal to purchase! You may have a lot of legal hoops, especially without a title.. Read below about buying stamps.

Let me tell you what I went thru which was similar. When I went to register my 31 I had the title but the first words out of their mouth was "does it have the original motor and I laughed...maybe should have held off on that... I said no, I put a factory rebuilt motor in it. The original titles in 1931 went by the motor number. OK, things started to drift to sorry at that point. They handed me an affidavit to sign. On it, they wanted to know what the vin number was on the vehicle that the motor came out of. OK, at that point I was wondering what kind of daft individuals think I should know that...? I explained again that I purchased the motor from a factory and had all the paperwork, including the serial number they assign at the factory in cases like this and they called it a birth certificate. Several different papers and the actual plastic strip that was attached to the motor from the factory was viewed in person when they required me to bring the truck in on a trailer to look for themselves. That was on day two of this fiasco. And I blocked about 6 of there parking spots right in front of the office until I got done. I had to make a trip to the store that I ordered the motor thru to get more info...there was no more info available but the factory actually called them to explain that's the way it is... Well after all the hoops were jumped, I told the lady at the registration office to get her manager...we discussed it for a while before she gave in and oked the title. 3 days but done. What's really ignorant in my opinion, which matters not, I now drive a 1931 Ford 2 door with the title number matching a Chevrolet motor. Jeez I can hardly wait to see what that causes down the road with info like that...It's been 7 years, haven't been pulled over yet...

Well being a fellow Floridian I am glad you were finally able to cut through the tape. But! The issue is not being pulled over, the issue would be if your vehicle was stolen and recovered or something else... illegally parked....that caused an impound. Plus what about you insurer? Would they cover a loss? Tow yards would not go by the tag, they can be changed, switched etc. They would need solid proof that your title matches that vehicle. Tow yards can be worse than the DMV!

I waited for a phone call that never came. I may not qualify for free services.

I now know on the A pillar where the ID tag use to be. But in Flawda that wouldn't matter if it went by the engine number. Its different, and I confirmed that with my friends original 54, which is from Connecticut. ID tag matches title. My car was first titled in Florida in 2009, with that engine number. How that happened is fishy. I am assuming that the owner in FEB of 2009 is the guy that switched the engine. Two owners plus me since then.

Interestingly, the DMV guy, and others, looked to the frame under A pillar for a number. One of my car meet crew, the tow guy that started me on this, suggested stamping a number there and make it look old. You can buy these stamp kits for 40 bux. But I am going to get the Judgement forms, and if I need a lawyer to do this so be it.

 

[Bamamav]

So thankful we didn't get titles until 1975. Even now, anything over 35 years old doesn't have to have a title anymore. A lot of vehicles that were getting parted out because of a lost title are now legal again with a simple bill of sale.

 

[05snopro440]

So thankful we didn't get titles until 1975. Even now, anything over 35 years old doesn't have to have a title anymore. A lot of vehicles that were getting parted out because of a lost title are now legal again with a simple bill of sale.

Everything goes on a bill of sale for us. If it's older and doesn't show in their computer system because it hasn't been registered in the last 10+ years, it's treated as being imported into the province and needs a more stringent out of province inspection.

 

[MercuryMac]

Snopro when you say it like that, it doesn't sound too bad.
By the third day of standing in long line-ups, inching up towards the desks, and finally coming up against a surly government worker with hoops for you to jump through, your patience wears thin.