Type of Saginaw gearbox in 95 Roadmaster?

[Mutt's37Buick]

Can anyone tell me what type of Saginaw gearbox is used in a 95 Buick Roadmaster?
By type, I mean 605, 700, 800, etc...
I found source that says it is a 12.7:1 ratio fast ratio box and has a FK or FE alpha code (see attached)
So far cannot find what the type is.
Thanks

 

[jfg455]

Well I hate to break it to you but the chart is incorrect. #1 Monte carlos with RWD ended in 1988 not 1993. Also the Monte Carlo box (same as 3rd gen F body Camaro / firebird) had one of the fastest stock ratios from GM at 14.7:1. These were only in the Monte SS, Buick Grand National, GTA / Formula pontiacs and IROC / 1LE Camaros. The big cars (B bodys) had a slower rate of 16.1:1 and the G bodys (non SS montes and regular Buicks etc) had a 15.7:1 ratio. I have a 12.1:1 box in my 69 chevelle but it was made by AGR and it is a custom ratio. Not sure where the author of the chart got his info.

 

[sgtpontiac]

Spot on jfg....Mutt he's given you good info..

Seems you really can't believe everything you read on the internet....LOL ..
but now you've got the info and it's 100%....

 

[Mutt's37Buick]

Interesting.
The info originally was in Car Craft magazine:
http://www.carcraft.com/techarticles/ccrp_0901_gm_steering_box_upgrade/viewall.html

That article references Jim Shea and websites where he has posted info:
http://www.chevelles.com/techref/ftecref29.html

He also has info posted at:
http://jimshea.corvettefaq.com/?cat=4

My primary interest is in the 95 Roadmaster which according to Jim Shea has a 12.7:1 ratio. I'm trying to use this gearbox because I bought it on a donor car.
1) Are you telling me that Jim has made errors in this info and this is not the correct ratio?

 

[sgtpontiac]

Interesting.
The info originally was in Car Craft magazine:
http://www.carcraft.com/techarticles/ccrp_0901_gm_steering_box_upgrade/viewall.html

That article references Jim Shea and websites where he has posted info:
http://www.chevelles.com/techref/ftecref29.html

He also has info posted at:
http://jimshea.corvettefaq.com/?cat=4

My primary interest is in the 95 Roadmaster which according to Jim Shea has a 12.7:1 ratio. I'm trying to use this gearbox because I bought it on a donor car.
1) Are you telling me that Jim has made errors in this info and this is not the correct ratio?

http://www.hemmings.com/mus/stories/2007/09/01/hmn_feature21.html
check out this article in Hemmings...it's pretty informative at to the 800 boxes and although there are some boxes that used the 12.7:1 they are available but not easy to find.....and were only used in specific models...some of the other ratios listed by Shea seem to be from other manufacturers other than GM as most used a wide varity of ratios...

 

[jfg455]

yea half the problem is Saginaw made boxes for EVERYONE under the sun. Sometimes you will see a box in a bone yard and think it is the one you want only to get it home and find it is wrong. I spent many a year racing oval track using the metric (Monte Carlo regal etc) front stubs. Also I worked at GM for 12 years and parted 85-93 trans am / GTA's for more than a decade. I have researched the interchangeability of the boxes and ratios to tailor them to certain tracks. It might have just been a typo where he wanted to list one box at the 12.7:1 and some how it got into all the slots. Once one guy posts it then some one copies it without looking and it is suddenly internet truth. [cl

 

[Ricks Garage]

2X^, we used many steering boxes that looked the same but worked differently in our race cars. Some had a fast ratio but did not have any "feel". There is a torsion bar inside the sector shaft that twists to give less or more feed back. The less feed back was found on the big car boxes. Nova and Camaros had the tight boxes that the driver (me) liked the best. That chart is not correct for GM boxes. Most are 16 to 1 others are 20 to1, MC SS and some Camaros had the 12.5 to 1 boxes. Our long track car was changed over to a short track car a few times a year. One of the changes was to replace the pitman shaft with a fast ratio shaft. To answer you other question (here and the hamb) Most of the front end parts (tie rods) will interchange on GMs up to the metric change over around 78. After that ???

weld on .......[

 

[Mutt's37Buick]

Thanks everyone for your help.
I'm so glad you all noticed these errors and will not be using the gearbox from the 95 Roadmaster on my 37 Roadmaster project.
I plan on sending a link to this thread to Jim Shea and the chevelles.com website. Hopefully they will make corrections to their tables.

 

[JIML82]

Here is a link to an updated chart for the very fast Saginaw (12.7:1) ratio power gears. It is in Excel format. I will post in pdf format later.

http://jimshea.corvettefaq.com/?p=557

The 1994 and 1995 B-car Buick listing (with FE suspension) is the Buick Roadmaster. The Chevrolet B-car would be the Caprice special suspension or police packages. Note this is only the 12.7:1 fast ratio gears, I have not listed the slower, standard power gears (15:1 17.5:1, etc).

Buicks listed before that time (1985-87) with the fast ratio gear were the G-car Grand Nationals. The Saginaw charts list them as HO - (High Output).

All of the gears on the list are 800 model gears. Not the big Cadillac, Olds, or Buick 808 gear boxes. Also, all of these gears are full travel to near full travel gears (i.e. pitman shaft sweep is 78 to 87 degrees.)

Steering valve effort ranges from fairly stiff (24 to 30 inch lbs). To fairly light effort (17 to 22 inch lbs).

Jim

 

[JIML82]

It seems that the fellow that was the keeper of the Tech Section over at the Chevelle.com website either quit or died several years ago. So I left a message as to who to contact to try and update my charts (which are about 10 years old). Haven't heard back as yet.
Jim

 

[Mutt's37Buick]

Thanks for your help in clearing up this confusion.
Looks like the gearbox from my 95 Roadmaster will work if I can design it into my project.
Mutt

 

[JIML82]

If you want to check to determine if you have a fast ratio gear here is the formula.

With a cheap plastic protractor you can measure the actual sweep of the pitman shaft. Count the number of turns of the input shaft (full lock to full lock) and measure with your protractor the movement of the pitman shaft. Then using the following formula, you can calculate the ratio of your new gear box.

360 x Actual Input shaft Turns / Pitman (Output) Shaft Turns (in degrees) = gear box ratio

So you can fairly easily determine the gear box ratio with the above calculation. Note, if there is oil inside the gear box you will need a catch pan to catch the oil spurting out of the gear box ports. Or connect the inlet port to the outlet port to recirculate the oil.

Assuming that a your gear box is an original (Buick Roadmaster) and was not replaced during the vehicle lifetime, I actually have more confidence in a salvage yard part than some of the rebuilt or "remanufactured" boxes available in the aftermarket.

So if your sweep is very close to 87 and the input shaft rotates just a hair over 3 revolutions, you have a Saginaw fast ratio (12.7:1) power gear.

360 x 3.07 / 87 = 12.7

Full proof if you can still detect the alpha code ink stamp "FK" on the aluminum top cover or the aluminum end cover.
Jim