Has anyone "Z'd" a muscle car frame

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soltz

The Rat Captain
Joined
Dec 11, 2011
Messages
6,178
Location
Bloomfield, N.M.
So I'm getting a new project tomorrow, 71 El Camino and i have some crazy ideas. Other than a chop and bob i'm thinking Z-ing the frame to get it down and maintain some suspension. [;)
Any ideas or comments would be good. I'll start a build thread when i get started. [S
Thanks you all and have a good hoiday season. [cl
 
Drop spindles for up front, go axle-over-spring in the rear, and if you want it lower in the back put blocks between the spring pads and springs to lower it further.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but dont the old A-body and later G-body cars share almost the same suspension as an S-10? If that is the case then you can get drop spindles for an S-10 and squat that car on the frame rails if you so choose.
 
Put it on bags. Fairly easy. If you Z the front, you gotta figure out how to stuff the motor under the hood and between/over the frame. That would be the hardest part IMO.
 
Thanks guys
The Global looks interesting but i'm more a builder than a buyer
Yes its coil rear
I guess i'm just to old school for bags
Whats wrong with the engine sticking a little out of the hood?[;)
I'll let you know what i end up doing [S
The challenge is the engineering and building something different and i have lots more time than money.
 
Whoa, whoa, whoa.....

Axle over spring? Those had coils and triangulated four link out back... Just like any other Chevelle.:)

Down with what DMW sez.... Go buy a lowering kit. Money, time, B.S. re-engineering ahead. Less hassles.

Regards,
Shea:)

Ya know what? I'm dumb. I TOTALLY forgot they were a Chevelle...
 
You could mount the frame a couple feet above the body of the car and build drop downs for everything out of triangulated all thread and it would be lighter for all the holes...
... that would be different. [ddd
 
How about going old school and just channel the body down over the frame ? If you Z the rear, you'll have to raise the box floor and wheel tubs anyways... Also if you Z'd the front you'll need to build a bigger and higher tranny tunnel which is probably more intrusive than if you channel it, where the whole floor gets raised - you can lower the seats to gain back some headroom.
Yeah, the engine will be closer to the hood (oh darn, have to cut a hole and put on a bug catcher scoop...) and you will need to raise the inner fenders for tire clearance and the steering column, but you would need to do that if you Z'd it too.
Buddy of mine channeled his 70 GMC 1/2 ton, with low profile tires, the rockers were about 4" off the ground, it looked killer with absolutely no fancy and expensive suspension mods.
 
You're going to be able to drop the thing as low as you want to drive it just in the springs.
 
Torchman has a good idea just change the springs. You can probably get a 4" drop delivered to your door.
 
once you get the suspension re aligned after dropping it you are going to have improved a-arm and rear trailing arm angles.

The a arms on this lowered truck are at the perfect angle but it look like his suspension might be too soft or the scrubline wrong to keep him from bottoming

But it looks cool

dually001.jpgdually002.jpgdually004.jpgdually007.jpgTRUCK002.jpgTRUCK002.jpg

I've thought of lowering my dually but probably not
it would be nicer to slide into instead of hopping into but I like the way it drives and handles
It's actually a 3/4 ton with dually spindles/coils and a rear end change and a few extra spring leaves in the rear
It was a factory c20 454 truck from El Cajon CA.
I bought mine with no drivetrain, converted it to diesel, wore that motor out and dropped a 350 chevy in.The rear axle is a 14 bolt from a dually with 3:22 gears from a diesel suburban that ran a th400 and highway gears instead of an overdrive
When I tear it down for new paint I have a brand new 1967 389 Pontiac engine with '76 6x big valve heads and the edelbrock performer rpm setup that is going in.


86dually2.jpg 86sandiegoquarter.jpg

P.S. once you get used to crawling under all your cars without having to jack them up you get to like it.
 
Thanks for the comments

Lots of good advise but, lowering with suspension screwes up the ride, channeling on top of a top chop leaves no head/leg room so I'll figure how to do it [;) and let you know. Stay tuned!
Heres where it starts[P
 

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Lots of good advise but, lowering with suspension screwes up the ride[P

All depends on how you go about it.
If your suspension moves 6" before it bottoms out
And the spring has 250#/inch spring rate and is pressurized at lets say 800#
@ 6" compression that spring will be pushing 2300#


So you lower it 3" and you have 3" left of travel before you bottom out
your new spring needs to build 2300# in 3 inches of travel compared to the stock spring that had to build 2300# in 6 inches of travel to keep from bottoming out. It is going to have to be stiffer, no way around it.
if you do not make the springs stiffer it's going to ride nice on a nice new road and bounce off the ground and slam everywhere else.

coil springs have 2 engineerign features to pay attention to
The pressure and the rate
the pressure it uses to hold the car up and the rate it increases when compresses

The more turns of wire you have, the lower the rate
The bigger the wire, the more the rate.
a spring with a soft rate can hold the suspension at a certain height just by being a really
long spring compressed a lot

higher rate springs tend to be shorter before installation because it takes less compression for the weight of the car to mash them out at ride height.

If you just cut your springs or install shorter springs close to the stock rate yeah it's definitely going to ride terrible.

The difference between air springs and steel is the steel compresses at a more linear rate while the air in the air spring compresses at an exponential rate.
An air spring can start out soft and go firm as it compresses which is how they make a semi truck ride better without bottoming out.

Air springs have less internal friction than steel springs (more bouncy) so it takes more shock absorber with different valving to control them.
 
On my 59 buick I did not want to have air ride,hydraulics ,cut or heated coils. It has coil springs all the way around. I pulled my o.e.m. springs from front and back and headed to the wrecking yard. I found springs that were quite a bit shorter and still retained the same pigtail design. I dropped the 59 8" back and 6" in the front. You can't get any more "build rather than buy". Good thing is I have $40.00 and a little labor in it.
 

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