I got a few questions.

[moose]

Ok I've been poking around here for awhile now, and doing quite a bit of reading, and talking to some of the local rat rodders trying to get some ideas. Now I have a few questions for you guys, regarding my future frame.
From what I have gathered after a few hours of reading frame building threads and the "how to build an early hot rod frame" thread on the HAMB either 2x3 or 2x4 square tubing thats at least 3/16" thick is the preferred material for frames. And 1/4" is only necessary in the higher horsepower applications. I also know you need to have your rims, tires, motor, tranny, front and rear end, for mock up.

Now onto my project. The body is a 31 Ford model A, the motor is a MOPAR 440, with a 727 torque flight, and this weekend I'm picking up a Ford 9" for the rear. I still haven't figured out a front end yet but I'm leaning towards a 3 inch drop axle. As for rims and tires I was planning on running artillery rims both front and rear, with 31" tall tires on the back and something a little smaller on the front. For stance I want the body channeled 2 inches in the rear and 4 in the front. I'm not a big fan of suicide front ends so I will run a model A front cross member to keep as close to the factory look as possible. For wheel base I would like to be around 106" . Suspension wise I had planned on a 4 bar with air bags in the rear, as for the front, I haven't gotten that far suggestions are welcome.

On to the frame, awhile back I picked up a set of CAD plans for a model A frame. There is a 15" Z in the rear and 4" in the front. The material call out is for 2"X4"X1/8" wall, its setup for a SBC 350 with TH350 and 4 bar in the rear. Now I know its my car and I can build it the way I want, and the frame plans are more of a reference than my exact plan of attack.

Now for some questions.

As far as square tubing goes will 2"x4"x 3/16" be heavy enough? That 440 is not light weight motor, and it will be pushing somewhere in the neighborhood of over 400 ponies.

When it comes to actually welding the frame together besides beveling the edges to be welded keeping it square and level are there any other trips or tricks I should know? Keep in mind I dont have any frame jigs.

After the frame is all tack welded, how are you guys finish welding the frame? In the back of my mind I keep thinking stitch welding........

Lastly what do you guys suggest as far as a front end? Is an I-beam better than a tube or is it all personal preference?

Sorry for the long winded post, but I figured it would be easier for you guys if you knew what my plans were for the car.

 

[Bonehead]

3/16 is pretty beefy, 1/4 inch is overkill, but some people like overkill.
As far as putting the frame together, alot of guys will build the two sides on top of each other laying on their sides, so both sides are the same. Set up both sides level with a long level, like a 4 foot. Shim it up and make it sturdy. Cross measure and tack it up. Experience tells you that the metal pulls towards your welds, so keep that in mind on where you locate your tacks. Keep checking level, and square as you weld it up. Burn it in, pulse welding is just a series of tacks. It works well for sheet metal, but this is your frame. There are tons of tricks, but it is hard to know what you are going to run into.
At any rate, good luck with it.

 

[cantwell.colton]

As far as square tubing goes will 2"x4"x 3/16" be heavy enough? That 440 is not light weight motor, and it will be pushing somewhere in the neighborhood of over 400 ponies.
yes its plenty if the frames designed and built well.

When it comes to actually welding the frame together besides beveling the edges to be welded keeping it square and level are there any other trips or tricks I should know? Keep in mind I dont have any frame jigs.
like bonehead said on top of each other or clamped together for the building of the sides is what i would do.

After the frame is all tack welded, how are you guys finish welding the frame? In the back of my mind I keep thinking stitch welding........
just do a good solid weld -- shouldnt even really need to bevel it but i guess it wouldnt hurt -- might be better with just a small gap maybe about the size of the end of a flathead - fish plates and gussets are always a good idea also.

Lastly what do you guys suggest as far as a front end? Is an I-beam better than a tube or is it all personal preference?
? its your build

 

[paultheblacksmith]

tubing thickness

Do the chassis shops not sell mandrell bent 2x4 tubing for rear four link set ups with a .125 wall? been years since i looked. i will look again for my own education. Learned that there is way more work boxing a fame and blasting and making braces than starting fresh.

 

[paultheblacksmith]

confirmed

chris alston's chassisworks sells rear weld in clips in 2x3 .83 wall and .120 wall, these will handle any street set up.

 

[nunattax]

frame jig

build a table.i cringe when i see peoplebuilding chassis on just jack stands.its your life on the line.diagonal bracingwill keep things square.bevel your edges to be welded.read read and read beforeyou start see how the experts do it.

When it comes to actually welding the frame together besides beveling the edges to be welded keeping it square and level are there any other trips or tricks I should know? Keep in mind I dont have any frame jigs.

 

[cantwell.colton]

build a table.i cringe when i see peoplebuilding chassis on just jack stands.its your life on the line.diagonal bracingwill keep things square.bevel your edges to be welded.read read and read beforeyou start see how the experts do it.

When it comes to actually welding the frame together besides beveling the edges to be welded keeping it square and level are there any other trips or tricks I should know? Keep in mind I dont have any frame jigs.

my wifes grandfather built an airplane on the floor of his little workshop lol

 

[moose]

Thanks guys for the replies. I still have a few weeks before I will have everything I need, but it doesnt hurt to start preparing early. I will probably use 2X4X3/16 tubing and for the fish plates go with 1/4". Some of the local rat rodders have offered to help with the frame when the time comes, and I will most likely have one of them or a pro finish weld it, as I do not want to take a chance.

I was thinking today about building a jig out of 2X4's and a sheet of 1/2" plywood so that when I laid out the frame rails they could be held into place and wouldnt move around on me. And when it comes time to tack the whole thing together make another jig to hold the sides in place and have something to clamp to.

I realize the importance of keeping it square and level, and I will probably wear out a tape checking it, but what sort of tolerances are there on a home made frame?

 

[cantwell.colton]

Thanks guys for the replies. I still have a few weeks before I will have everything I need, but it doesnt hurt to start preparing early. I will probably use 2X4X3/16 tubing and for the fish plates go with 1/4". Some of the local rat rodders have offered to help with the frame when the time comes, and I will most likely have one of them or a pro finish weld it, as I do not want to take a chance.

always good to get some help -

 

[Bonehead]

I realize the importance of keeping it square and level, and I will probably wear out a tape checking it, but what sort of tolerances are there on a home made frame?

Shoot for perfect, but settle for 1/8th out. I usually work on it until I come out dead on.

As far as jack stands. I have built sections of oil rigs, that had to match up with other sections. It is just a matter of getting everything level and measuring everything all the time.

 

[cantwell.colton]

i built a 24 walkway that will be between 2 - 40ft (tall)_ tanks on jackstands and saw horses this week and working on a 20 footer now
praise to the metal worker gods for magnetic levels [

 

[Charley Davidson]

One of my pet peeves on any forum is the guy who says "don't do it without (insert professional equipment name) I've seen guys build perfectly square and safe things that are very dangerous and fast under a tree in the back yard.

Sure it's ideal to have a frame jig but no necessary. Just be diligent at keeping things square and true, make good welds. Work smart and improvise.

Good luck

 

[moose]

Does anyone have any pictures of home made frame jigs? I have some ideas forming in my mind on how to go about building one.

 

[donsrods]

Does anyone have any pictures of home made frame jigs? I have some ideas forming in my mind on how to go about building one.

Here is our jig. We've built a bunch of frames on it and it does the job. We may build another one out of a huge piece of I beam, only because it will store easier when not in use, but that will not be for a while.

Don

Here is my Sons RPU frame clamped down to it:

And here it is turned on it's side to weld the sides of the frame. The jig alone weights 300 pounds, so we used our gantry to flip it over:

You can see it a little better in this picture, that is my 23 frame on it:

 

[cantwell.colton]

Does anyone have any pictures of home made frame jigs? I have some ideas forming in my mind on how to go about building one.

i honestly think that i was going to build one -- i would make the legs of it
jackstands - or well, pipe stands rather - with the wingnut/bolt for adjusting
height

edit - id probably make the pipe stands also not a whole lot to them...

 

[moose]

thanks Don for the pics. it will give me something to go by for when it comes time to make my frame jig.