No other like it.
- Thread starter 8literbeater
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Help Support Rat Rods Rule:
DJ3100
Well-known member
I'll take the cheapest set.
Going to Goodguys today. Probably be home when you get off work or I'll be around a Saturday.
8literbeater
Well-known member
I'm finally working on seats today. I was originally going to build some, but Earthman told me about these seats at a good price. They'll look totally different when it's done.
I started building the rails last night, I should have some pictures of the mounted seats by this evening.
I started building the rails last night, I should have some pictures of the mounted seats by this evening.
earthman
Fascinated by rolling objects!
Hey my phone died. Going over to battery plus.
8literbeater
Well-known member
Hinges in the front, short pieces of angle iron in the back, and I got away without cutting the old seat pan. Well, so far…
DJ3100
Well-known member
There are some companies who convert mini vans to medical transport vans in the Phoenix area. The second and third row seats show up on CL and at the swap meets for somewhere between $50 and $400 a pair. Usually brand new, and leather or fake leather. That's what is in my 3100. Hard to argue with the price, comfort or convenience.
Mine have a quick release to remove them - I have found that handy several times.
Mine have a quick release to remove them - I have found that handy several times.
8literbeater
Well-known member
Yep that's what these are. They were $50 for the pair.
I got the first one mounted. The passenger side seat is just sitting there. You can see the driver side seat is sitting a little bit lower. I had to take the back all apart to get the head rest out. That was a lot of work, but I don't like the head rests.
I also had to pull the covering back on the seat bottom and trim some of the brackets to clear the old seat pan.
Eventually the seats will change shape a little, and all the plastic will disappear.
I got the first one mounted. The passenger side seat is just sitting there. You can see the driver side seat is sitting a little bit lower. I had to take the back all apart to get the head rest out. That was a lot of work, but I don't like the head rests.
I also had to pull the covering back on the seat bottom and trim some of the brackets to clear the old seat pan.
Eventually the seats will change shape a little, and all the plastic will disappear.
8literbeater
Well-known member
Well I haven't done much in the last few days, but I have an update anyway.
A while back, I did all my coolant tubes to and from the radiator in polycarbonate tubing. Polycarbonate is used for bullet resistant windows and various other things, because of its impact resistance. The stuff is really strong. I took this tubing and hit it with a hammer, swung it against my vise, clamped it in the vise, it's really hard to break. I thought it might have a problem with the ends shrinking after having a hose clamp on it for a long time, so I made some stainless steel rings to go on the inside, and hold the shape.
So I put everything together, filled it, ran it, checked it, and the stuff didn't get soft when it was hot, didn't warp, everything was fine. After sitting there for about a month or two, I came out one day, and all of the ends had broken off. Both ends of all five pipes, had just broken off, all at the same time.
The short ones:
The long ones:
So decided that it must've been the ring that I put in to help, that hurt. I had some tubing left over, and just redid the two long pieces. They're the only ones you really see anyway. I put them in with no stainless rings. I just used steel tubing for the other joints.
So far, I've only heated it up a couple of times, but it's holding together fine. I don't have any new pictures yet, but the coolant is much cleaner after refilling and flushing it about 6 times due to a leaky water pump, leaky radiator twice, and these broken tubes.
You can see in this picture, it was pretty muddy. It's nice and green now.
A while back, I did all my coolant tubes to and from the radiator in polycarbonate tubing. Polycarbonate is used for bullet resistant windows and various other things, because of its impact resistance. The stuff is really strong. I took this tubing and hit it with a hammer, swung it against my vise, clamped it in the vise, it's really hard to break. I thought it might have a problem with the ends shrinking after having a hose clamp on it for a long time, so I made some stainless steel rings to go on the inside, and hold the shape.
So I put everything together, filled it, ran it, checked it, and the stuff didn't get soft when it was hot, didn't warp, everything was fine. After sitting there for about a month or two, I came out one day, and all of the ends had broken off. Both ends of all five pipes, had just broken off, all at the same time.
The short ones:
The long ones:
So decided that it must've been the ring that I put in to help, that hurt. I had some tubing left over, and just redid the two long pieces. They're the only ones you really see anyway. I put them in with no stainless rings. I just used steel tubing for the other joints.
So far, I've only heated it up a couple of times, but it's holding together fine. I don't have any new pictures yet, but the coolant is much cleaner after refilling and flushing it about 6 times due to a leaky water pump, leaky radiator twice, and these broken tubes.
You can see in this picture, it was pretty muddy. It's nice and green now.
DJ3100
Well-known member
I wouldn't rule out the Arizona summer UV intensity. Can't tell if it yellowed.
"Polycarbonate weathers when exposed to UV light. This weathering often takes the form of yellowing and micro-cracking of the material."
From Highline Polycarbinate at this site:
http://highlinepc.blogspot.com/2009/12/acrylic-sheet-and-polycarbonate-sheet.html
"Polycarbonate weathers when exposed to UV light. This weathering often takes the form of yellowing and micro-cracking of the material."
From Highline Polycarbinate at this site:
http://highlinepc.blogspot.com/2009/12/acrylic-sheet-and-polycarbonate-sheet.html
Neverdone
He's not done yet...
the polycarbonate stuff is a neat idea, but I would be worried about the longevity of it.....
8literbeater
Well-known member
I thought about that too. I bought the stuff a few years ago, and leaned it against the side of the garage. I left it there for a couple of years before using it, watching to see if it would fade, crack, or warp. The only info I could find about polycarbonate was that the UV resistance was "good".
It looked fine, and didn't seem to crack at all when I put it all together. This is the stuff that was outside for a couple years:
Even after they all broke, I took the leftover pieces and tested them by putting a piece in my vise, and hitting them with a sledge, and basically trying to destroy them to see if they had gotten brittle from the coolant, heat, or sun. It was still as tough as ever.
Since they broke at the ends, I'll blame it on the dissimilar material and expansion rate of the stainless steel.
It turns out that I could've bought pyrex glass tube for half the cost. I still might.
There's only the two pieces in there now, and I think I'll make a couple pieces of steel tube to fit, and keep them behind the seat.
smallfoot
He's rockin' the "Nuttin Special"!
I believe I'd try it without the metal inserts. More than likely you are right about the expansion rates. Metal would expand more than the polycarbonate.The metal probably popped the plastic.
klink
Well-known member
The polycarbonate failed because of the heat. Most polycarbonate is only good to 140 degrees F. Also, the metal rings expand much less than the polycarbonate. Stainless has a coefficient of appx. 15 microns per meter per degree C. Polycarbonate expands at 70 microns per meter per degree C.
DJ3100
Well-known member
" Polycarbonate has a heat distortion temperature of 264 degrees F". From
http://highlinepc.blogspot.com/2009/12/acrylic-sheet-and-polycarbonate-sheet.html
Seems that if the stainless has a lower co-efficient of expansion it wouldn't cause the polycarb to break. I don't think Pyrex is a good solution, can't see it taking any kind of impact or even a lot of vibration.
I think the polycarbonate will look cool if it is reliable. I like the idea of carrying some steel tube and maybe a couple gallons of coolant.
Did you get the turbo back yet?
http://highlinepc.blogspot.com/2009/12/acrylic-sheet-and-polycarbonate-sheet.html
Seems that if the stainless has a lower co-efficient of expansion it wouldn't cause the polycarb to break. I don't think Pyrex is a good solution, can't see it taking any kind of impact or even a lot of vibration.
I think the polycarbonate will look cool if it is reliable. I like the idea of carrying some steel tube and maybe a couple gallons of coolant.
Did you get the turbo back yet?
klink
Well-known member
The thermal barrier is the point at which the material no longer retains its performance properties. Polycarbonate melts at 300F, unless it has glass in it then it goes up a little. 264F is for flat material with no load. So that is the temp just before it goes into a pre-melt state. The tubing is made using an extrusion process, which will add a small amount of stored energy, not much but some, maybe a few newtons. Restraining it also adds stored energy and heat is another source of energy. The added energy means that its operating temp will go down (which is not 264F). The heat cycle(s) also adds energy (pressure) which works the material. The way the tubing broke is what we would call a catastrophic failure and has the characteristics caused by thermal overload. The material adjacent to the clamp went through an annealing process and the material under the load work hardened. The small amout of stored energy in the tube found its way out.
DJ3100
Well-known member
Thanks for the explanation, Klink. Are you saying that due to the heat cycle and cooling system pressure the tube will break even without the stainless inserts?
klink
Well-known member
It's hard to say. The rings definitely added to the clamp pressure and it also restrained the tube from moving. It's very possible that without them the polycarbonate would expand and contract evenly/uniformally and not fatigue nearly as quick (if at all). Using polycarbonate with glass in it would definitely change things.
klink
Well-known member
The poly failure kind of distracted me from why I was looking at this build... I really like the way this truck is coming out. Lots of original ideas here. Nice job!
8literbeater
Well-known member
They got the turbo on a Saturday, I called them the following Wednesday and they told me it was on the bench, but had some work in front of it. He said he'd call be when he got a look at it. A week later, I still hadn't heard from them, so I called on Wednesday before Thanksgiving, at noon. He said it was on the bench, and he had taken it out of the box, but hadn't taken it apart yet, and he would definitely get to it in the next few hours, and give me a call.
I never heard back from him. Thanks for the compliment!
On that tubing, the only info that I could find on the temperature was in the 270 degree range. I figured it'll either work, or it won't. I guess the rate of expansion also entails a rate of contraction, and the poly contracted faster than the stainless, and split. Whatever the case, it's put together now without the stainless rings, and it's only been heated up a couple times. I do think having a backup plan is appropriate.
DJ3100
Well-known member
I hate waiting for stuff when I'm ready to move forward. I guess you really can't expect anything else right before the Holiday. If this is warranty work they may not be very motivated to hurry.
