1940's International Crew Cab Diesel

Ok, I bent some tubing, welded, and cut on the firewall, so I guess I have officially started on my build. I will make no claims about the rate of work on this project - I hope it goes quickly, but if I get too busy this is the first thing that will suffer.

So, I picked up a very rusty set of 1940's International KS-5 sheet metal about 6 years ago:



I picked it up with the intent of building a rat rod, and figured it was in good enough shape to be perfect for that. My initial plan was to work the front sheet metal into a COE type nose and place the engine in the back. I was going to trim the bottom off the cab rather than do a chop (at least the internationals have a pretty low window stock!) and use the nose for legroom. However, now I have changed my mind on this for 2 reasons. First, I would be losing out on one of the coolest parts of a rod - being able to see the engine while driving. Second - the overall length of the truck was going to be longer than I wanted in order to get all the driveline in with a mid-engine design. So, I am now switching to a more conventional layout with the engine in the front.

Another major design element for this build is the seating requirement. I need to be able to seat 2 adults and 3 kids. I have 3 boys - 10, 8, and 6. My last project car was a 2 seat sports car, and every time I drove it we had battles over who got to ride in it first. It was impossible to go as a family to any kind of car show, etc without 2 vehicles. So, this build needs to haul the family. I've looked at old truck cabs stretched into a crew cab, but don't really care for the look. So I am going to try a different approach. I am going to cut the entire back out of my cab and fabricate a 68" wide, 36" long sleeper to connect to it. It will look like a period correct sleeper off a tractor trailer (though with more windows) complete with rounded corners. This will have a bench seat in it for the boys.

To mock the sleeper up I bent some 1" tubing and tacked it together in the planned dimensions. Here are pictures of the mocked-up layout:











From those pictures you might have noticed some of the other plans. I want to go dually with rather tall tires. I'm going to look into something like old style 20" truck tires, but for now will be going with typical heavy duty pickup 235-85-16" as I have a spare set of wheels and several old take-offs to play with. I have a low mileage 3.55 rear end out of a '91 F250 diesel that will be used. Since it was not a dually rear it is actually shorter, and should work well even with duals on it - and not be crazy wide.

I'm planning to keep the front end very short rather than doing the typical stretch. I just prefer the look - will probably be pushing the front axle centerline back and let the engine stick out in front. This will help give it a nice turning radius - which is important since I plan to drive it to work in the city.

Sounds like a heck of a plan. It's always fun to include the kids.
Post lots of pics for us.

Happy to hear you will be driving it to work. Antique steel needs to be driven daily.

I would use the fenders and the nose. Those old Farmalls have a great looking front end on them. You could always run without the hood if you wanted.
When you start sitting the front axle back, you can start to get the nose heavy look with a lot of engine, frame, and radiator sticking out in front of the tires. If it's not long enough for the engine you plan on using, you could always extend the front behind the tires. Look at Peterbilts for example. They have a short nose and a long nose, the difference in the hood length is behind the tires. Not counting the sloped hood aero design with the setback axle Petes. That is a different look entirely.

I like the sleeper idea. Your tubing bends look a lot like the old flat top sleepers of that era. You could probably get some nice windows at a RV parts place. Might be a bit claustrophobic riding anywhere but in the middle though even with side windows!

Just my $.02, worth maybe less....

nice start, like the way your thinking and the boys will thank you with ever ride. [cl
keep us posted [

Thanks everyone. I am definitely not going to be using the front end sheetmetal on this build - the goal is to have a very "mechanical" look on this project. My last project car had cycle fenders 1/2" off the front tires, and that was too much front sheetmetal! So, if you know anyone looking for fenders, hood, grill for a cornbinder let me know!

I did not mention what I'm using for power on this thing. I have a Detroit Diesel 4-53 turbo 2 stroke I am going to use. For those not familiar with these engines the model number means 4 cylinders at 53 cubic inches each - 212 cubic inches total. It's a 2 cycle so it fires every time the piston comes to TDC. It has a roots type supercharger on the side of the block to provide the pumping action and charge the cylinders with fresh air via ports in the bottoms of the cylinders. There are 4 valves per cylinder in the head - all exhaust! This engine is a turbo model, so it has a turbocharger feeding the supercharger to achieve some boost. Stock this engine is 175hp and 425 ftlbs of torque, and sounds like a mad chainsaw doing it. I think it brings a lot of character to the truck.

For an idea of the sound look up 4-53t on youtube.

I need to assemble my engine - but already have all the new parts for a complete rebuild.

Cool build. I'm not a fan of the Detroit only because of the noise. I've had to work next to one on occasion and end up deaf before the day is half over. I've been told that two different governors are made for these. One for stationary use and one for use in a tractor where rpm changes with the throttle. The latter would be the one two run one a street vehicle if this is the case.

The nose forward is not my style but, I do like lookin at them [P

I've worked on trucks that had the 4-53 noisy doesn't start to explain it, definetly different

Love the sleeper and Detroit ideas! I grew up operating Detroit powered logging equipment and just love 'em - even though they made me deaf.

Yep - they are loud, but I like the sound. I reserve the right to change that opinion in the future!

I was planning on using the "baby" Road Ranger 10 speed transmission I acquired at the same time as the engine, but it's just not fitting so well. It is really wide and tall, and takes up just about the entire cab! It also weighs 425lbs, and is not currently an overdrive. So, I'm thinking about using a Ford E4OD electronic truck tranny I've had for a while. I have a Baumannator TCS stand alone control module for it that is fully programmable and even gives a push button manual option. It's a lot less weight, and is already overdrive.

I had pics but my phone crashed yesterday. Will post them when I get it restored.

Well, it's about 3 years later so this project should be long done and logging miles, right? Well, it hasn't really changed much I'm afraid. Too much time working and commuting - and on top of that I had projects I needed to do for other people that kept me from putting time in on this. No change in the work hours or awful commute, but I at least got the other people's projects done and can now work on my own guilt free!

So, I have spent a considerable amount of that 3 years looking at it and thinking about it and designing it in my head! I've now settled pretty close on the design, and am going to make an effort to do at least a little work on it on a weekly basis.

The sheet metal plan: I shortened and split the hood and grille to create a nose similar to what manufacturers made for COE's of the 40's. I've always liked the COE look. It will take some fitting and filling in, but the pics give you the idea. The engine is going behind the cab and "sleeper". It makes it a little longer than I wanted, but really opens up the floor of the cab and allows the whole cab to sit very low. I am still doing the sleep as a means to create an extended cab with a second row of seating for the kids (who are growing bigger rapidly - gotta get this done!). In the pics the cab is sitting higher than the sleeper frame - but the sleeper will be taller than the cab like most sleepers of that era were.

Chassis plan: I already had a low mileage '91 F250 rear axle that I planned to use. I recently picked up a '97 F250 2wd front axle, which gives me heavy duty 8 lug brakes and bearings all the way around. I am going to weld and bolt the front I-beams together to make a solid axle. (The I beams are cast steel and are weldable, but a couple of bolts will give a little peace of mind) I was originally going to do a complicated chassis with large, mandrel bent tubing, but have decided that the main rails will be simple rectangular tube to save time.


Drivetrain: I am still using the Detroit Diesel 4-53T. I have everything to assemble it, I just need to get the block clean (more on that in a minute). I am back to using the baby RoadRanger 10 speed tranny - gotta have a few gears to shift... Gearing is a concern - the Detroit maxes out about 2500 rpms. The rear axle is a 3.55, and the 10 speed is not an over drive. With the 235-85R16 truck tires I was planning on using top speed will be an issue. For about $500 I can convert the tranny to an overdrive, which gets close to ideal but not quite there. I can also put a 3.08 gear set in the diff for $200 - $300 which would be perfect with the OD conversion. Then I had another thought - possibly go with school bus wheels and tires on the back, for a much bigger rolling radius. I am still chewing on that one. At any rate I am going to proceed as it would be drivable with the current gearing and I can make the changes as later upgrades.

I mentioned I need to get the block cleaned up. Unfortunately I had it vatted close to 20 years ago, opening it up to rusting inside and out since then. And now I cannot find any place that can do the wheelabrator process that takes the rust off. All the local machine shops say it's too big for their machines, though I at 24" x 19" x 14" I don't think it's much if any bigger than a typical big block. The 2 diesel rebuild shops that are somewhat local only have a hot vat - which won't get the rust. And $205 to vat just the bock?!? It was $35 or $40 when I did it last time. So, I am looking at home alternatives. I am torn between trying electrolysis or soaking in vinegar or some other easily sourced acid. I could also sand blast it - but I hate using abrasive blast on engine stuff. Any suggestions?

Here are some current pics...

Very cool project! Don't feel bad, I started my 48 Plymouth in 2008 and even though its roadworthy now I still have bugs to iron out.

TubularFab said:

Drivetrain: I am still using the Detroit Diesel 4-53T. I have everything to assemble it, I just need to get the block clean (more on that in a minute). I am back to using the baby RoadRanger 10 speed tranny - gotta have a few gears to shift... Gearing is a concern - the Detroit maxes out about 2500 rpms. The rear axle is a 3.55, and the 10 speed is not an over drive. With the 235-85R16 truck tires I was planning on using top speed will be an issue. For about $500 I can convert the tranny to an overdrive, which gets close to ideal but not quite there. I can also put a 3.08 gear set in the diff for $200 - $300 which would be perfect with the OD conversion. Then I had another thought - possibly go with school bus wheels and tires on the back, for a much bigger rolling radius. I am still chewing on that one. At any rate I am going to proceed as it would be drivable with the current gearing and I can make the changes as later upgrades.

I mentioned I need to get the block cleaned up. Unfortunately I had it vatted close to 20 years ago, opening it up to rusting inside and out since then. And now I cannot find any place that can do the wheelabrator process that takes the rust off. All the local machine shops say it's too big for their machines, though I at 24" x 19" x 14" I don't think it's much if any bigger than a typical big block. The 2 diesel rebuild shops that are somewhat local only have a hot vat - which won't get the rust. And $205 to vat just the bock?!? It was $35 or $40 when I did it last time. So, I am looking at home alternatives. I am torn between trying electrolysis or soaking in vinegar or some other easily sourced acid. I could also sand blast it - but I hate using abrasive blast on engine stuff. Any suggestions?

Here are some current pics...

Click to expand...

According to some quick calculations you're at about 2700 RPM at 70 MPH with that combination. 2000 RPM occurs at 52 MPH. I don't know what max cruise RPM should be on the Detroit, but a quick search said somewhere around 2500 RPM. Even just going to a 3.08 with 1:1 final gear gives you around 2350 RPM at 70 MPH. $500 for overdrive is cheap, but you also don't want to be spinning too low.

I'm curious about how you're going to build linkage to shift and operate the clutch all the way back there behind the cab. A lot of mid-engine builds go to automatics, probably partly for that reason.

As for the cleaning of the block, if you can find someone to tank it for a couple hundred dollars that's more than reasonable for peace of mind in my opinion. If a couple hundred bucks is the end of the world, building a hot rod is going to hurt.

At 2500 RPM that Detroit will be screaming, and pistons will want to swap holes. Around 2150 should be the max it ever turns, they don't like high RPM's even though they can be turned up to do them. On that 10 speed, you can have 9 & 10 gears reversed on the shaft and get overdrive, but when you do that you end up with a U shift pattern, the last two holes will be reversed on the stick, 4 & 9 will be toward the back and 5 & 10 will be toward the dash. If you add a back OD box to the 10 speed, you can have a double OD 15 speed.

As far as clutch and shifter, a lot of newer trucks have a hydraulic clutch now, so you might be able to adapt one off a wrecked truck. For a shifter, look for a older cabover, like 70's or 80's, they use a long shaft with U joints to mate the trans and shifter, which bolts to the cab floor.

Yes - I had figured I’d want enough overdrive to be able to cruise at about 1800 rpms - to preserve the engine and my hearing at highway speed. But I’m not too concerned about that part for now. I have the part number for kit to swap 4&5 when the time comes. Also - though I was aware that 2500 was max I was also under the impression that they were made to turn max rpms all day? I have attached a pic of the performance curves for a stock 4-53t.

I’m definitely not worried about the clutch linkage - a cable can easily handle that. The shifter will be tricky but fun to work out. I have some ideas there.

The problem with tanking the block is it won’t do much for it. The caustic solution they use is great for grease and paint, but doesn’t do much for rust. I have no grease - just rust. I was just commenting on how much the tanking cost has gone up - but it’s probably due mostly to rising environmental costs.

No, they were designed to run at max TORQUE all day. You can see from your chart how torque falls off after 1800 RPM. The couple of hundred RPM on top only help in creating more speed, torque is what makes it move.

I've never messed with a 4-53, but am familiar with the 4-71, 6v71, 8v71, 6v92 and 8v92. They are all basically the same, just larger displacement. An old trucker told me the proper way to drive a Detroit was to slam you hand in the door first thing in the morning so you'd be mad all day, LOL! You do have to keep the RPM's up on them, lugging them will kill them fast. Operated some equipment with the 4-71, you had to rev them up to get the hydraulics working. Trucks I've driven with the V series were the same way, you kept the RPM's up to keep them moving.

One thing all of them have in common, besides the distinctive sound, is if they quit leaking oil, you better put some in because it's about to run dry! They all slobber oil from the factory! That's probably the biggest reason they quit putting them in trucks, EPA was all over them about it.

Bamamav said:

No, they were designed to run at max TORQUE all day. You can see from your chart how torque falls off after 1800 RPM. The couple of hundred RPM on top only help in creating more speed, torque is what makes it move.

Click to expand...

I was going to say the same thing, based on that chart you should try to be at 1800 RPM at cruise speed (give or take).

Sound like a lot of work ahead of you. The truck drivers I know that have run them say the same thing, They need RPM to stay healthy and if they ain't leaking oil the're empty and about to come apart. They also say that the can smell a hill a mile ahead and start slowing down then. They make good stationary motors. The mechanics I know that work on them say the're great boat motors because you have an anchor when they come apart.:[ddd They are cheap and easy to rebuild. [P[P

I forgot to mention You might try a welding shop to get the block wheel abraided. The larger ones around here have them to clean up stuff before paint.