1927 Chevrolet Jalopy project..."Chevrolopy?"

[FlatBroke]

Alienbaby17,
I just got a PM from someone and they explained that my comment might be taken out of context........Please allow me to explain myself........

You did not bring up any bad memories. Not at all.
Some of us are still members of Killbillet and still post from time-to-time. Rat Rods Rule was started by someone who did not like the direction that KB was headed for.

I hope you (or anyone else) did not take what I said as offensive. Some times I crack 1 too many "wise" remarks for my own good.

Please understand that we here at RRR value every member on this site and want everyones expierience here to be a pleasant one.




Now I'm going to go read all the info you posted, If I have anything to offer will respond in a constructive manor.

Thanks guys.

 

[Alienbaby17]

No worries- Flate Broke.

Hitman- You have any pictures posted of that build- sounds cool. Also I'd like to see how these kegs are working out for seats!

Earthman- I'd never considered 1/4 elliptical springs before...infact I've hardly ever seen any. I was just talking to one of my co-workers about it. He said that there is an aftermarket kit for leaf-spring Jeeps like that to help increase the articulation.
Are these 1/4 elliptical springs typically originally full leafs cut in half or are they purchased like this?
Sorry- I know NOTHING about these.
What would be the advantage of this setup?
ANy other pictures of this style frontend?

Jay

 

[earthman]

Speedway sells the adjustable Posie's units. Commonly used on track roadsters,they can be utilized front or back and just provide an alternative.Leaf springs can be cut in half.

 

[hotrodron]

I am also interested in more info on these 1/4 elliptical springs. How do they mount to the frame? Looks like that last pic they are just attached to the frame with u-bolts. Looks like they come right off the front. The pic above it looks like they come off of the sides. ???

 

[Jimmyjoe Jimbob]

This thread looks vaguely familiar to me Hat. Glad to see you're sharing it here.

 

[earthman]

HRRon,
They can be mounted on any side of the frame or even extending
out from inside the end.

 

[Alienbaby17]

I checked the price in the Speedway catalog (didn't see them online) and the 1/4 elliptical springs were over $300 for a pair. Very cool- but probably not a real possibility for this build...unless I were to cut up some full length springs.
I do like th eoptions they offer as far as a front suspension goes- I hadn't considered it before.
I'll probably end up finding a transverse or full length pair of parallel leafs.

Jay

 

[Bonehead]

It is easy to make your own, and cheaper too. Junk yard springs, or take offs from 4x4s with lift kits. ( I like Jeep Wrangler). Leave the tie bolt in an chop saw them off 4 or 5 inches from the tie bolt. Spring will insert into box tubing. Make a hole in the box tube for the tie bolt, to fasten the spring to the box. Weld the box to the frame. Inside outside or into the frame rails.
The hard part is a shackle system to attach to the axle. You still need arms to locate the axle. I would attach pictures, but those projects are long gone now. sorry no pics.

 

[donsrods]

This is really a very cool thread, and you are laying it out in a fun, well described manner. Thank you for taking the time to post it.

What a cool idea too. I love cars that are put together like this, so much more interesting than cookie cutter rods. Perhaps I can offer some ideas to you, since I am just finishing up a year and one half build on a little modified that began as a $ 3000 project. Along the way I got carried away, and probably have $ 15K in it now, but the concept it the same regardless of money spent.

First of all, do not be afraid to build your own frame. Ladder frames are easy to do if you take your time and measure and level them up on a firm base, like a welding table or steel jig. Our jig is homebuilt and simply some rectangular tubing welded into a perfectly level, square shape. If you clamp the rails down during welding it will not pull out of shape. I suggest 2 x3 or 2 x4 rectangular steel with a wall of 3/16. About $ 120 will get you enough to do a typical frame.

Here are some pictures of the early stages of building my frame.

Don


Don

 

[donsrods]

Something that might also be helpful to you is that my Son is building a roadster pickup body much like the one you are doing. He started with a fordor sedan and cut it up. He built the rear portion very similar to what you are doing also. Here are some pictures of it.

Good luck with your build and please keep the pictures and dialog going.

Don

 

[hotrodron]

Thanks for explaining bonehead. I like the look of these. I might give it a shot.

 

[Jimmyjoe Jimbob]

Jay's one of a few , that can turn changing the light bulb in your dash clock into 4 paragraphs of typing ... and make you glad you read it all.

Hat (Jay) definately has an entertaining way of explaining what he does. He should be an automotive writer for somebody. His talents (many) don't get the deserved appreciation from his employer I'm sure.

 

[donsrods]

So, if you ask him what time it is he tells you how to build a watch, huh?? I suffer from that problem myself.

Don

 

[Alienbaby17]

Thanks for the kind words guys.
I've just pieced two-and-two together and realized Don is the author of one of the best threads on building a rod I've ever read. I believe it was on the KB site and is so dense with good information it's amazing.
I get a little verbose occasionally. You should see the service writers cringe when I bring up tickets. They're accustomed to seeing things like, "Belt is busted- needs new," or "tires bad..." then I come up with a small book and throw in words like "whilst" just to mess with them.
But enough about that.

Tomorrow I was able to score a day off and will be getting my welding gas refilled. Then it's just a matter of gradually sneaking my doors, cowl, and back cab section here to the shop without drawing too much attention to them.
Once they're here I can get back to work on the body. I'm gonna lay everything out again- take some measurements and probably some pictures and lay out a new game plan for assembling the three main components (cowl, doors and rear-section) together.
I'm excited and a little anxious about the frame and suspension but figure getting the basic shell together will need to happen first.
I did buy five 8 foot long 2 X 4"s to mock up a frame with once I have the basic body together...Norm Abrams meet Mr. Goodwrench

Hat

 

[35Mastr]

I was also wondering how this one was doing.

 

[Alienbaby17]

Well George, since you asked...
I've been meaning to post an update for the last week or so. However with Christmas approaching and all of the rushing/running around with that I haven't had that much time.

Yesterday was the first day I've been back at work on the project in over a week. Part of that was by my own design as I had forced myself to stop working on things until AFTER I had finished all of my Christmas shopping. The other part of it was due to equipment problems. The last time I went to use my welder I opened the gas valve and there was a loud hissing. It turned out someone had cracked the fitting on the regulator that attaches it to the hose leading to the welder. I say "someone" because I had just gotten a new tank of shielding gas earlier in the week and had only hooked everything back up and done a leak check since then.
Long story short (not my style) I had to buy a new regulator for it ($75) and since no one else in the shop admitted to damaging it or contributed to the new regulator I will be the only one using it from now on.

So, on to the project...
I just re-read where I was with it the last time I posted and I have come a fair distance since then. If you're a slow reader you may want to get comfortable, possibly start a pot of coffee and sit back...

Jay

 

[Alienbaby17]

Ok, here we go.

This is from the "build diary" I'm keeping on our club page. It seems like the easiest way to update this site will just be to "cut and paste" some of those entries here.

11-29-2007
"I just got back from a trip to Discount Steel. I purchased 6 10 foot lengths of 1" square 14 guage tubing.
Towards the end of last week I 'got back to it' and did a little more work on the 'sub-structure' and in the process used up the last of my first round of tubing.
I realized as I was on my way home that I've probably gone a little 'overboard' with the tubing thickness. I'm sure I would have been fine with a thinner gauge but- ehhh no harm in overbuilding a bit- the only disadvantage seems to be a little added weight.
The next step for me is to start building up the cowl area and do a test fit of the doors- then more evaluation..."

12-05-2007
"Fully re-equipped with suppiles- I've been back to work on the project.

Over the last week or so I've been doing more work on the 'body-skeleton'.
As we left the project I had a collection of body pieces in dire need of some assembly. I had a cowl, (actually two to choose from) a pair of doors and the 'rear-body-section' I had previously made. The plan was now to build the foundation to assemble them all into something more than just a pile (of odds-and-ends).

My idea was to build a framework to connect the front and rear of the body and also provide mounting for the doors. I started by measuring, cutting and doing a little welding. I added the two pieces of steel tubing across the bottom of what will be the door openings and run up to the cowl. Once the two sections were welded onto the bottom of the 'rear' I made a pair of small cuts into them so that they could be bent to accomplish the taper of the body as it narrows towards the cowl. I then tack-welded a section of some kind of 1.5" square tubing (galvanized, yeah I know better...) that we had in the shop across the front to help keep things 'tied' together. Once that was in and it looked like both sections of tubing were coming in at the same angle I welded the two cuts back up.

It's difficult to see in the photo but the two sections of tubing actually taper in about 2 inches per side as they come forwards.

Now that I had a bit more shape to the body skeleton I needed to add a little more structure.
I welded up a three-sided rectangle with the square tubing. I had designed for it to fit just inside the cowl. Height-wise it will be just underneath the upper two inches of the cowl where the tubing goes across.
I put it together and did a trial-fit of one of the doors. Oopsie-daisy! I guess I mis-measured and the mark I made was where to start the vertical tube not end it- the opening for the door was an inch too narrow. Luckily, I'd only tacked it in place but it was still a bugger to get apart- I guess my welding skills are getting better! Once that was moved over an inch the door fit very nicely.

I'm pretty sure I will not have the doors functional. I probably could, but honestly I don't want to make this any more complicated than it has to be so I'll most likely eventually just weld 'em into place.

Here's a shot of what it all looked like at that point.

Tonight I dug out the body-skeleton and the cowl and did an experimental trial-fit.

The tubing sticking out at the front is going to be bent to fit inside the cowl.

Shizzy happened to stop by while I was pondering how best to 'frame-up' the cowl. Prior to his arrival I had been planning a simple, very basic way to accomplish this. Shizzy walked around it for a few minutes while I explained my plan and then made a few recomendations. Although it would add a little more time and complexity to the build I knew he was right and that what he suggested was the better way to go.
The hardest part for me is the specific angles/ measurements, and visualising things without actually seeing them. My brain just doesn't work like that. I need to write everything down and then probably draw it out on graph paper from two or three different angles first. Shizzy helped me figure out some simple geometry and soon I had all the angles necessary to build what I want. Ofcourse I will be drawing it out next but I think I have a plan and hopefully will have the basis for the cowl foundation all welded onto the rest of this by the end of the weekend."

 

[Alienbaby17]

12-09-2007

"Friday and Saturday nights after work I devoted a little more time to the Chevrolopy.
I spent most of Friday night measuring and cutting out the pieces that would eventually make up the cowl foundation.

Saturday morning when I came in to work one of my co-workers was looking at the "skeleton" I'd left sitting out. He said he'd stopped by the shop late Friday night with a friend and his friend had been inspecting my work. Apparently his friend went out of his way to point out how some of welds had not been done 'correctly' and thought it was necessary to make fun of my abilities. This kind of ticked me off. About half of the welds are just "tacks" to hold certain pieces together while I see how everything fits. I explained that I'd had no formal welding training, wasn't a professional welder, and had mostly learned from books and a few friends. I asked what this guy had ever built that was so great (nothing) and told him to be sure to bring it by so I could examine and critique his work when he was half-done with it. The co-worker said that was just the way this guy was. Great- just what the world needs more of...
It kept eating at me all day. Then I realized that I don't take criticism all that well and that that is something I need to work on and not take so personally.
On the positive side it did inspire me to want to show this guy just how good my work can be. It pushed me to examine my welding and other work and try to raise my standards. So- I guess that was a good thing.

Specifically I started to examine what it was about my welds that weren't up to this guys standards. When I was first taught to weld I'd been taught to basically make a series of small overlapping circles as I went along. I talked to a few other people and they seemed to feel that the 'smiley face mouth' ( ) or the 'frown face mouth' ( :-( ) alternating back-and-forth was the better way to go. They said that you wanted to "push" the weld as you went along. I was also told that the way I had been welding actually made for a weaker weld because you were going back over the areas you'd already welded. I guess this made sense. I practiced the 'smiley-face' style and my welds started to look a lot more like the ones I'd seen in books and magazines. SO- I guess this guy's comments caused me to learn something new that actually made my welding better- for that I thank him. I'd also like to thank people like Shizzy and Johnny C. that looked at my welds and made recommendations regarding temperature and speed settings without tearing in to my skills and cutting me down.

Anyway- despite spending all that time on inner-growth ( ) I was still able to get some work done.
I managed to get the majority of the cowl sub-structure somewhat welded into place.

I'm still planning on some (probably unnecessary) diagonal gussets for the cowl support area and also another section of tubing to run across the door openings about 2/3 of the way up the doors.
Once those are in place it will just be a matter of "finessing" (big hammer ) everything into place and then some final welding and clean-up before hanging some actual body parts in place."

 

[Alienbaby17]

12-10-2007

"If you recall my goal here is to get this baby on the road for $3000.
Here's an updated "expense report" of how I'm coming with that...

I'd broken the plan down into three sections...
Body- $500
Chassis- $1500
Drivetrain- $1000.

In the "Body Category"...
Cowl - $40 (or $50 if I use the one I got from NCG)
Doors- $162...
Square tubing (used so far) $85-ish...
'54 F250 box- $20.
F100 tailgate- $30.

Body total so far...$337. I'm thinking I'm going to go OVER budget on the body section. That won't be the worst thing in the world because I think (hope) I'll be coming in UNDER budget on the drivetrain.
In the "Drivetrain category" I've got $150 into a useable 'as is' 300 Ford engine and C6 transmission.

Anyhoo...that's about where I'm at now.

I did also get "busted" by the owner of my shop the other day.
It was kind of on the "DL" that I was building this at the shop after hours. The other night when I left I was tired and set the cowl on my tool box instead of stashing it out in the "shed". I guess the owner of the shop came in and saw it. The next day when I came in he turned and looked at me and said, "Are you building a car from scratch?" He had a little bit of a smirk on his face. I said, "No, well not really from scratch- mostly an amalgamation of several older things." He laughed and said, "What is this the 1890s?" He took it very well and went on to tell me a story about one of his neighbors currently restoring a Model T. I think as long as I keep it from interfering with shop functions I should be alright. Cool.
Over the weekend I'd left the "skeleton" in my bay in the shop. This morning when I came in the owner was there again and joked while looking at the empty shop that, "At least we have one car in here this morning."
When I told a friend this story he suggested that one of the reasons the owner keeps me around is because he gets a kick out of all of the goofy things he catches me doing..."

Jay

 

[Alienbaby17]

12-23-2007

Last night I did a little more work. Now that the welder is fully operational again and allof my Christmas shopping is dne I've been afforded a little more work time.

Since the last photo I have added a pair of 45 degree gussets to the two horizontal cowl supports. It probably wasn't necessary but I'd prefer to over-build than under-build.

Last night I was doing a little more welding of the areas that still needed attention. I'm hoping that by the end of the year I'll have found enough time to clean up and finish all of the welding on the body 'skeleton'. It shouldn't require that much work. There are a few welds that aren't too pretty that I'd like to re-do but the majority of them I'm not going to touch. I'm not that worried about having exposed welds- I kind of like the look of them when they're done well.

SO that's where I'm at.
Once the body 'skeleton' is at a point I'm satisfied with it I'm going to find a way to mount the doors and cowl. Then it will really be coming together.

Jay