51 F1 Flipped Frame?

[C1ph3r]

Hey guys. Well i finally got my truck and now its start asking questions. It is a 51 Ford F1. Thank you 52 Fordman. I don't have any welding experience at present but will be starting a class in January.
Anyway, i had this crazy idea today of flipping the frame and doing an underslung suspension set up. Move the motor back to give way to axle clearance, then move the cab back and shorten the bed. The thought it my head is this would get me super low with out having to modify the frame. like c-nothing or Z'ing it. just boxing it in and making mounts for everything. i really dig some of the pics i have seen of the parallel front springs and underslung they look even cooler.

Thoughts? Is this doable or just ludicrous? i have searched here and Killbillet but cant seem to find the exact answer.

 

[Thunder1]

Underslung frame

Here's a good example of one from the Redneck Rumble last month. Instead of using a stock frame turned over, this guy used two parallel 5" I-beams for his frame that were tapered down in front. He's only got 2 1/2" of clearance but he said it drives like a dream. I guess he should know he's been all over the eastern half of the U.S. in it over the past month or so.

 

[C1ph3r]

Very cool thunder1. so what i have found from reading is that its doable. i just wasn't sure how the stock frame is going to do turned over. guess theres nothing to but to do it.

 

[Thunder1]

One more picture I forgot about

Here's a shot of the rear end. You can see how the frame is built and re-enforced. Sorry for the poor quality of the picture. I took it with camera phone rolling along behind him.

 

[hotrod preacher]

it would make for a very different and possibly cool set-up, but i don't think that in the long-run it would be as easy as c-notching or z-ing the frame in a "normal" set-up there is also a whole lot of "little" things that would need to be addressed as well....

i'm not saying it can't be done, or even that it shouldn't be considered-just that i would put alot of thought into it and maybe set the frame out, flipped even, and then just LOOK at it, measure it and study it a bunch before actually making up my mind on it....

i pulled the front and bed off of my 52 and studied it for 6 months before deciding on how to modify the frame of it...and i don't think it was time wasted...
anyway-keep us posted on what you decide....i'll be looking for a build thread

 

[Thunder1]

Very cool thunder1. so what i have found from reading is that its doable. i just wasn't sure how the stock frame is going to do turned over. guess theres nothing to but to do it.

Yes it's do-able! Everything is just sort of mounted in reverse from what I could make out from looking at this set up. Of course this guy used a dually Dana 70 rear axle and extra heavy steel for his frame for strength. However anything is possible if you set your mind to it. I think one of the issues you might run into using the stock frame might be strength. Everything needs to be really strong to handle the different load geometry exerted on the frame and suspension. Just my humble opinion mind you.

I'm glad you found some inspiration from my posts. Keep us updated on your plans and the build itself. I'm really intrigued by it myself.

Thunder

 

[Ratsnest]

frame flip

this truck is on ebay now it has the frame flipped.the back of the frame was cut off and flipped back over.

 

[Thunder1]

Well there you go C1! Somebody else figured it out. I was thinking about the rear frame section being problematic too. So that's how you deal with it? Cool!

Thunder

 

[C1ph3r]

Very good info gang. I will definitely be doing a build thread once i get started. That may be a while. Have a lot of other projects around the house to finish first. i also want to get the frame media blasted to see how bad off it is. I will for sure be boxing in the frame or even putting square tube in it for strength.

 

[C1ph3r]

this truck is on ebay now it has the frame flipped.the back of the frame was cut off and flipped back over.

HA!! This was the truck that got me started on the idea. But what i was wanting to avoid was cutting off the rear of the frame

 

[Rev Tex Devlle]

HA!! This was the truck that got me started on the idea. But what i was wanting to avoid was cutting off the rear of the frame

dont cut the frame just swap the hangers

 

[C1ph3r]

dont cut the frame just swap the hangers

Man i hate to sound ignorant but i am. Can you explain what you mean by swap the hanger? i know what the hangers are but what am i swapping?

 

[Rev Tex Devlle]

Man i hate to sound ignorant but i am. Can you explain what you mean by swap the hanger? i know what the hangers are but what am i swapping?

dont worry man everyone has a question, theres no wrong question but theres alot of wrong answers!!LOL!!
i was talking about the spring hangers where the leaf springs attach to the frame, most are rivoted on, just cut them loose and turm them upside down which would make them rightside up after you flip the frame, thenbolt them on with grade 8 bolts, ruff drawing on bottom, by doing this you weill have a couple of frontend issues to deal with but thats no big deal. castor and camber! but thos are easy fives

 

[52 fordman]

f1 frame

Hey C1pher I have a extra frame also just dont have it at the house. Way cool idea about flipping the frame. looks real cool and would be a blast to do.

52 fordman


rust never sleeps

 

[C1ph3r]

dont worry man everyone has a question, theres no wrong question but theres alot of wrong answers!!LOL!!
i was talking about the spring hangers where the leaf springs attach to the frame, most are rivoted on, just cut them loose and turm them upside down which would make them rightside up after you flip the frame, thenbolt them on with grade 8 bolts, ruff drawing on bottom, by doing this you weill have a couple of frontend issues to deal with but thats no big deal. castor and camber! but thos are easy fives

ok i got ya. that makes since now. would i want to do that on the front and rear?

52 Forman, i may take you up on that. when you first offered it i didn't think it would be needed but now i can see how it would come in handy.

 

[Rev Tex Devlle]

i would flip the frame and and swap the rears and use a shorter leaf spring, say a car trailer spring, and move the reaer hangers forwars to bob the frame off anf the bed, if ya like that look, try different things in the mock up stage see what you like most! just build it safe!

 

[C1ph3r]

safe is a big concern. i may not know if its safe or not. Thats my biggest problem. guess i'll just have to ask here when i have a concern

 

[Shea Laking]

Something to consider (well, okay, a few things)...

BEFORE you flip anything, determine the sizes of your wheel and tire combo. Next, get a front and rear of the sizes you've picked and stand them up in your garage resting at the final wheelbase measurement you've decided on. Now, draw a line along the bottom edge of the wheel rims (NOT the tires) from front to rear-this is called your scrub line. Anything that falls below this line can and will hit the ground if you have a blowout.

Even though the kickup over the rear axle on an early pickup truck chassis are much smaller than todays trucks, you can bet they will fall below the scrub line.

When you flip the chassis over, the leaf springs must be disassembled and reassembled with the spring leafs in upside-down order, otherwise you will only have the spring action of the main leaf (the one with the spring eyes). yes, this will give a softer ride but the spring rate will go WAY down.

On the topic of springs-What happens if you break a spring? With a conventionally arranged chassis, the frame members run over the axle/suspension assemblies, therefore if a spring fails, the chassis will hit the axle before it hits the road....With an underslung design, there's nothing between your chassis and the road...but thin air. If your front spring(s) break, your frame rails will drop to the road and most likely your rod will pole vault end over end. This is why the front buggy-spring setups commonly used on T-buckets is called a "suicide" spring-the spring perch is above the chassis rails.

The steering system will need to be remounted higher as the geometry won't work with the chassis one foot (or more) lower than stock in relation to the axle assembly.

I don't want to be a p***k...that's not where I'm going here. I just want you to realise that there is more work here than it at first appears. You need to take long careful consideration before you actually do it, just as others have posted in this thread.

Whatever you end up building, just do your best to make it safe AND fun and cool!

Hope this helps a little, anyway.

Regards,
Shea

 

[C1ph3r]

Good info Shea. I knew about the scrub line. But the othe stuff. I always wondered why they called it suicide suspension. I didn't think about all of that. That changes everything. I'll have to put some more thought into this. That's all it is at this point anyway is an idea. I wonder if there would be a way to put limiting straps so it that was to happen the frame wouldn't hit the ground? Oh well I'll just keep thinking about it.

 

[Shea Laking]

Suspension limiting straps,or maybe cables, or high-grade chains....HMM... That's some food for thought and not something I had thought of. That's one of the great things about forums such as this-one guy (or gal!) gets an idea then he (or she) logs in and bounces it off of the heads of his virtual roddin' buds. Then discussion begins... THIS is how to solve problems in the best way.

Can you remember how it was to customize or cut up cars before the internet? My first car was a Chevy Vega. I decided the 4 banger wasn't enough, so I sourced old magazine articles and a mail-order "build it yourself" mount template kit for inspiration...I ended up putting that 327 in there using junkyard V-8 Monza parts and ALOT of help from my Dad and some buddies. I was in High School at the time and enthusiasm was in greater supply than funds OR knowledge. If I was to build that car today (I'd LOVE to, BTW), it would be SOOO much better built just because of info I've been able to find out there on the WWW. So many ideas and so much experience available to advise, I'm quite sure that car guys (AND gals!) are the most generous and helpful people on the planet in terms of helping others with information and ideas.

Somebody posted pics here awhile ago of a little early 20's Dodge roadster that was underslung...while it looked cool as anything and was featured in a major magazine, I believe it would have had scrubline issues and it definately had the spring rate problem I mentioned earlier, as the builder hadn't flipped the spring leafs around. Now, the E-bay truck posted earlier in this thread looks to have had the leaf packs reassembled in the correct manner, just enlarge the thumbnails and look closely, you'll see what I mean.

Glad you didn't take my earlier posting as a bashfest, as I was hoping, you took it as the constructive critisism it was intended for and are using that to ponder further your plan of attack.

Safe and happy rodding!

Regards,
Shea