Never once too offence. If you had started out with "dude you're an idiot. That'll never work". Then I may have been offended. I haveseen the dodge you are talking about and that guy is screwed if he gets a flat. I have tried to get it in my head how to repack the springs and bu. I'm struggeling. As it sites now it's fram-long spring-gradually shorter springs-axle. After flip, would it be axle-short spring-gradually longer springs-mainspring-frame? I just can't get my head around it. I would also assume after doing this, all load capacity is out the window.
51 F1 Flipped Frame?
- Thread starter C1ph3r
- Start date
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Shea Laking
Well-known member
C1ph3r,
Basically, you would have to completely disassemble the spring packs and reverse the order in which the spring leafs are arranged.
For example, let's say you have a spring with three leafs-The main leaf is the longest one and has the spring eyes rolled into the ends. The middle leaf is medium in length and sits in the middle of the pack, then the shortest leaf falls under that.
On a conventionally designed leaf spring suspension, you will notice that the main leaf attaches to the frame mounts and shackles. Beneath this, the other secondary leafs are arranged in order of length, going from longest to shortest the farther away they are from the main leaf. The reason for this is simple-as more weight is added to the spring pack, the main leaf flexes or bends (this is all a spring does to function-bend and spring back-hence the name "spring"). As the main spring bends, it's arch flattens out and then it comes into contact with the second leaf in the pack. the second leaf adds another thickness of spring material, thus increasing resistance to bending or flexing. This is how "spring rate" works on a multi leaf spring. Each consecutively shorter leaf adds it's own extra resistance to bend, or flex, or spring compression, if you prefer, thereby increasing spring rate as more weight (or load) is added to the vehicle.
It might be good for you to take a peek at the springs already on your truck-this is how they will be arranged, long-to-short from the frame side of the spring pack, out to where the axle mounts.
Now, for the "reversed" spring for the "underslung" chassis application. When the chassis is hanging underneath of the spring packs, the vehicle's weight will stretch the main leaf into a greater arch, as opposed to the conventional arrangement flattening the main leaf into a shallower arch. If you were to leave the springs stock, there would be no increase in spring rate, because the increased spring arch on the main spring would actually pull the main leaf away from the second, third, etc leafs.
So, you would take the leaf spring pack, clamp it in a vice (very important!) and undo the center bolt and straps which hold all the leafs together. Now, the leafs would be arranged in opposite order, with each shorter leaf placed against the main leaf inside the curve of the spring's arch, rather than on the outside of the arch, like they are stock. So, first the main leaf, then the second leaf placed inside the main leaf's arch, then the third leaf placed inside the arch. Bolt and strap it all together and you're all done.
I really wish I knew how to run my wife's scanner-a quick sketch would have been SO much easier for me to explain this visually to you.
Hope this helps you to understand...I'll see if I can't get this scanner figured out a little later so I can post a pic for you.
Regards,
Shea
Basically, you would have to completely disassemble the spring packs and reverse the order in which the spring leafs are arranged.
For example, let's say you have a spring with three leafs-The main leaf is the longest one and has the spring eyes rolled into the ends. The middle leaf is medium in length and sits in the middle of the pack, then the shortest leaf falls under that.
On a conventionally designed leaf spring suspension, you will notice that the main leaf attaches to the frame mounts and shackles. Beneath this, the other secondary leafs are arranged in order of length, going from longest to shortest the farther away they are from the main leaf. The reason for this is simple-as more weight is added to the spring pack, the main leaf flexes or bends (this is all a spring does to function-bend and spring back-hence the name "spring"). As the main spring bends, it's arch flattens out and then it comes into contact with the second leaf in the pack. the second leaf adds another thickness of spring material, thus increasing resistance to bending or flexing. This is how "spring rate" works on a multi leaf spring. Each consecutively shorter leaf adds it's own extra resistance to bend, or flex, or spring compression, if you prefer, thereby increasing spring rate as more weight (or load) is added to the vehicle.
It might be good for you to take a peek at the springs already on your truck-this is how they will be arranged, long-to-short from the frame side of the spring pack, out to where the axle mounts.
Now, for the "reversed" spring for the "underslung" chassis application. When the chassis is hanging underneath of the spring packs, the vehicle's weight will stretch the main leaf into a greater arch, as opposed to the conventional arrangement flattening the main leaf into a shallower arch. If you were to leave the springs stock, there would be no increase in spring rate, because the increased spring arch on the main spring would actually pull the main leaf away from the second, third, etc leafs.
So, you would take the leaf spring pack, clamp it in a vice (very important!) and undo the center bolt and straps which hold all the leafs together. Now, the leafs would be arranged in opposite order, with each shorter leaf placed against the main leaf inside the curve of the spring's arch, rather than on the outside of the arch, like they are stock. So, first the main leaf, then the second leaf placed inside the main leaf's arch, then the third leaf placed inside the arch. Bolt and strap it all together and you're all done.
I really wish I knew how to run my wife's scanner-a quick sketch would have been SO much easier for me to explain this visually to you.
Hope this helps you to understand...I'll see if I can't get this scanner figured out a little later so I can post a pic for you.
Regards,
Shea
Last edited:
Shea Laking
Well-known member
Okay, let's see iff'n I got it.
http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o306/Shea_Laking/truck.jpg
Hope this works.
Sorry, looks like you'll have to turn your monitor (or head) sideways.
Regards,
Shea
http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o306/Shea_Laking/truck.jpg
Hope this works.
Sorry, looks like you'll have to turn your monitor (or head) sideways.
Regards,
Shea
Shea Laking
Well-known member
No problem! Glad I could help!
I like your idea about straps to limit downward travel, that might just work.
Something you might want to try for inspiration is to check out some detail photos of antique race cars, like '20's and 30's Grand Prix or Indy racers...I believe some of those used the underslung chassis. You might pic up some good ideas of how to proceed.
Check out Flipper 1938's build thread here in the "Builds" section about his boat-tailed roadster, "Roofus." He has some photo links there that may be a good start for you.
Hope you had a good Columbus Day weekend. Looking forward to seeing some pics of what you come up with when you start building!
Regards,
Shea
I like your idea about straps to limit downward travel, that might just work.
Something you might want to try for inspiration is to check out some detail photos of antique race cars, like '20's and 30's Grand Prix or Indy racers...I believe some of those used the underslung chassis. You might pic up some good ideas of how to proceed.
Check out Flipper 1938's build thread here in the "Builds" section about his boat-tailed roadster, "Roofus." He has some photo links there that may be a good start for you.
Hope you had a good Columbus Day weekend. Looking forward to seeing some pics of what you come up with when you start building!
Regards,
Shea
after sitting here for sometime staring at my computer and pondering safety, it got me thinking. what are the chances of one of these springs breaking? what can i do to the frame so that if it does, it wont dig into the pavement and more so slide across it? I noticed on a lot of the front ends when the its set up suicide, the front part of the frame that has the spring perch, it has round tube instead of box. Is this to help with that or is round tube just nicer to look at?
Shea Laking
Well-known member
I "think" there's a few different reasons for the round tubing crossmembers...I'll make some educated guesses and hope that the more experienced guys will hop in and correct me if I'm wrong.
First one that comes to mind-with the T-bucket, suicide spring perch front end is that a round crossmember would allow easy adjustment of the spring perch for front axle caster adjustment.
Second thing I can think of is "tradition." I.E. alot of traditional early Ford V-8 highboy hotrods seem to have had round tube spreader bars between the front and rear ends of the frame rails...maybe this was stock Ford? I'd defer to answers from those who were "there" as opposed to a guy who is only old enough to read it fourth-hand in a magazine or website (that'd be me, BTW).
I think there might be an inherent strength issue here, too-perhaps a round tube is stronger than a channel or square tube crossmember? That's a question best answered by Bonehead, or Flipper1938, or one of the other experienced welder/fab guys here on RRR.
You may well be right with your comment. I could see how a round edge at the front would tend to "slide" like a toboggan over snow, while a square edge would tend to dig in. The logic is there, from a layman's standpoint. However, in the real world I'm just "not sure."
Anyhow, more food for thought. It's almost midnight in my part of the world right now, so time to hit the sack. 6 am comes early. Thanks for the discussion, I'm enjoying it!
Regards,
Shea
First one that comes to mind-with the T-bucket, suicide spring perch front end is that a round crossmember would allow easy adjustment of the spring perch for front axle caster adjustment.
Second thing I can think of is "tradition." I.E. alot of traditional early Ford V-8 highboy hotrods seem to have had round tube spreader bars between the front and rear ends of the frame rails...maybe this was stock Ford? I'd defer to answers from those who were "there" as opposed to a guy who is only old enough to read it fourth-hand in a magazine or website (that'd be me, BTW
).I think there might be an inherent strength issue here, too-perhaps a round tube is stronger than a channel or square tube crossmember?
That's a question best answered by Bonehead, or Flipper1938, or one of the other experienced welder/fab guys here on RRR.You may well be right with your comment. I could see how a round edge at the front would tend to "slide" like a toboggan over snow, while a square edge would tend to dig in. The logic is there, from a layman's standpoint. However, in the real world I'm just "not sure."
Anyhow, more food for thought. It's almost midnight in my part of the world right now, so time to hit the sack. 6 am comes early. Thanks for the discussion, I'm enjoying it!
Regards,
Shea
michaels
Well-known member
This is a great thread as I was thinking of asking the same question. Did anything ever happen with your project C1ph3r?
52 fordman
Well-known member
F 1 flipped frame
As for the F 1 he sold it. Didn t have the money and time to do it. As I know of he was working outside no garage and not at his place. I sold him the truck a while back after i got what i needed, now it is some place in Florida.
So.....
If he still comes here cool. If not he will always be welcome. I have not saw him here in over a year.
52 fordman
As for the F 1 he sold it. Didn t have the money and time to do it. As I know of he was working outside no garage and not at his place. I sold him the truck a while back after i got what i needed, now it is some place in Florida.
So.....
If he still comes here cool. If not he will always be welcome. I have not saw him here in over a year.
52 fordman
