a couple thoughts on rat rods,

[flatheadgary]

i was just thinking about street rods and such back in the days. i remember back in the early '70's when hot rods,street rods were beginning to be built again. it seemed we used whatever we could to build them just like a rat rod today. most people did paint them, at least black primer and such though. i find the elitist idea of traditional and formula street rod sites very weird. don't they remember were they came from or are they just full of alot of young and old people that don't really know? i am not looking for a fight here. just curious as to the idea why all the animosity toward real backyard built cars. sure, some rat rods are little over the top with poor design and workmanship, too much rust and the like, but if these people are young isn't that how us old folks started out too!! now, don't get me wrong. i have built street rods and traditional rods too. i tend to build clean painted cars, but i don't like the rules and regulations with that group very much. i like to think outside the box and have found these people want to keep the statis quo. that is why i think rat rods will get better and cleaner as a natural progression in the art of building cars. just like street rods did. i think some day there won't be a line between all these groups. maybe this is turning into a little to much rant, think i will shut up now.

 

[Tripper]

i find the elitist idea of traditional and formula street rod sites very weird.

FHG,
Well... I better tell you now B4 u find out later! We're into elitist traditional rat rods around these parts! Now if I can just remember how we did it back in tha day!!!

BoB

 

[donsrods]

I have read enough of the comments people have made on various forums to sort of get an idea of what some of their reasons are for disliking rats. Here are some of them:

1) Some rodders take offense at the idea that "this was how we did it back in the day." They feel the idea that rusty parts are an insult to what they were attempting to build back then. I have seen the comment many times over that "we didn't intentionally build them to be ugly, we tried to build as good looking of a car as we could."

2) Others find some of the decorations used on rat rods gimmicky, like Maltese Crosses, sculls, pipe organ exhaust systems and air cleaners, spider webs, etc. These are most often people who find fault with red wheels and satin black bodies.

3) Poor construction techniques. Safety is one thing that causes a lot of comments when rat rods are discussed. Many rodders think all rat rods feature substandard components, horrible welds, little regard for correct geometry, and generally are not suitable to drive on public roads.

4) There are some that feel that many old cars that could have been turned into something decent are now irrevocably ruined because of being cut up so badly to build a rat rod.

I am not saying they are right or wrong, just posting my observations of what I have seen them say. I will say I have seen rat rods start to evolve into more mainstream types of cars, and some of the outrageous builds that once defined what a rat was have started to go away somewhat. On every rat rod forum the word "safety" is no longer seen as being something uttered by only old fogies, and I see rat rodders starting to make suggestions to others about how to improve their cars.

We are also seeing a lot of the questionable components, like box end wrenches being used for pitman arms, or crowbars for draglinks, going away.

Finally, I see a lot of cars on the HAMB that I would catagorize as rats, but sometimes they are welcomed by the members as being "traditional", so maybe the lines are getting blurred a little. I see rods on there all the time with rusty bodies, blankets for seat covers, and other elements that were once the domain of only rat rods.

These are just some of my personal observations.

Don

 

[Willowbilly3]

Well, lines are impossible to establish and maintain. As bad as we need lables, they kinda stink. This is a discussion that's never settled.
Ilean a little more toward conservative. A lot of people like design extremes, I don't always and I'm not afraid to say so usually. I like to build and drive something that doesn't follow fads so much. Something that will still be a righteous rod 20-30 years from now. I probably won't be on the bandwagon when lace table cloth paint jobs are the go. Graphics? out, Good pinstripping? in.

 

[lowbuckrats]

rats

Just my opinion but, I think our cars built specifically to be driven and enjoyed, flat-out. I am not fond of people who baby their cars that were clearly intended to go fast. They might as well put a hood on them and stuff in a chevette motor in it then as far as I'm concerned. We are not concerned about parking lot dings and cruddy interiors and bird **** on our cars;--- just ripping around the neighborhood, loud and proud... That's what a true hot-rod is

 

[bob w]

Just a couple additional points to Don's very comprehensive report.
1. The general public that wanders around a car show has adopted the term "rat rod" and uses it for just about any car or truck that is in primer or doesn't look like a billet street rod. It really iritates the guys with more traditional hot rods when someone says, "I like your rat rod".
2. The whole rockabilly 'kulture" scene seems to bother the traditional folks. They seem to think the Rock/psychobilly types are trying to reconstruct the 50's. My take is they are taking some of the 50's vibe and making it their own. They are having a lot of fun 'role playing'. Some folks can't stand to see other folks have a good time.
3. Every facet of the car hobby get pushed to extremes. But there's a place along the continum for everyone. Be happy with what you enjoy about the hobby and don't worry about the rest.
Examples: 4wd Pickup - Monster Truck (extreme)
Motorcycle - Boss Hog (extreme)
Daily driver hot rod - Trailer Queen
Dirt track jalopy - Figure 8 school bus races
Briggs & Stratton Go Cart - 100 mph shifter cart
Mild custom - Ferarri powered Rambler
Our kind of rat rod - Junk rod, death trap rod

 

[flatheadgary]

don, as always, your the voice of reason. i like all the answers from all of you. it must be really difficult i would think, for people to maintain strict rules, when there raw material is being crushed every day or becomes nonexistent. if they start buying shop made repo's of old parts do traditional rods become formula street rods? this thread is just me rambling because i don't have any money right now for saw blades and such. thanks for the replies though.

 

[earthman]

And street rodders on the ratrod bandwagon! God bless them,everyone

 

[dawg]

inginuity is the key...

 

[Willowbilly3]

One observation. I used to spend some time on another latge Hotrodders board, no not HAMB I still go there. Well anyway this board had every kind of car but the minute anyone posted a "ratrod" or spoke the words, all kinds of emotione would boil up. One of the mods was the worst and I finally figured out what was bugging him. He was jealous because people gravitated towards these fun cars and away from his polished high dollar paint job car.

 

[Tripper]

2) Others find some of the decorations used on rat rods gimmicky, like Maltese Crosses, sculls, pipe organ exhaust systems and air cleaners, spider webs, etc. These are most often people who find fault with red wheels and satin black bodies.

3) Poor construction techniques. Safety is one thing that causes a lot of comments when rat rods are discussed. Many rodders think all rat rods feature substandard components, horrible welds, little regard for correct geometry, and generally are not suitable to drive on public roads.

4) There are some that feel that many old cars that could have been turned into something decent are now irrevocably ruined because of being cut up so badly to build a rat rod.

Don,
I have asked you to stop talkin' about my car like that!!!

BoB

 

[flatheadgary]

your right about people gravitating to these kind of cars. i think it's because there something different than the norm. i have always found that even the people who make it there life to be around cars, magazine people and shop owners, and the like, find anything unique interesting. i believe it's because they see the same thing and have to report on them or build them and they just like to see something different. i remember i built a T bucket once and it was nothing spectacular, but the shop where i bought parts at just loved it. i thought how can this guy who builds show winning cars find my, rustoleum painted, no chrome, backyard built car so cool!

 

[Unkl Ian]

Two things going on here.

One,the pendulum effect.
Two,human nature.People want to "out do" each other.

Over the years,mainstream "street rods" became increasingly
shiny,smooth,and straight,complex,and expensive.
As the pendulum moves further past center,the reacting forces
on the opposite side increase.The same way that Punk music
was a reaction to Disco,some people started making cars that
were the exact opposite.No glossy paint,body work wasn't
absolutely "show perfect",minimalist,and low dollar.Eventually,
popular media starts hyping this idea as fashionable,and slowly
the pendulum starts swinging back the other way.

 

[flatheadgary]

whoever said rat rodders were not smart? we all sound like a bunch of sociologist it would seem, after something is hyped up for awhile there is always a backlash and as ian said, the pendulum swings back the other way.

 

[Unkl Ian]

I remember Dave Hill,in Custom Rodder Magazine several years ago,
talking about the (then) emerging popularity of Rat Rods,
saying "Lets not try and out Rat the next guy".
Of course,he knew it would happen.

Several years later,Dave Hill and Custom Rodder have vanished,
we have "hard core" Rat Rod Snobs(tm),saying "my car is rustier than yours",
and looking down at people if their paint is too shiny.

Not much different than the new Traditional Snobs(tm)
chastising anyone who dares to use radial tires,disc brakes,
or a small block Chevy.Some how,motors that were considered obsolete
before most of us were born are now somehow "better" than something
that is more reliable,makes more power,easier to find parts for,and costs less.

And the more carbs you run,the better,
with the shortest exhaust pipes possible.

 

[Unkl Ian]

whoever said rat rodders were not smart? we all sound like a bunch of sociologist i

I see my self as more of an anti-sociologist.
Or was that anti-social ?

 

[Perx Motorsports]

this site is great. guys building cars to suit themselves is the best. oh and drive those built cars too. There is a guy that retired with a chunk of cash and builds $100,000 hot rods (well, has someone build them) that has a shop two doors down from our little 18' x 32' shop and he spends more time in our place than his. He is a cool guy and talks on and on about the cars he built in the 60s and 70s and how they mimic what we are doing with my Blazer, which is using what you have to make what you want! And he usually has some kind of disgarded part he lets me have. Anyways, everybody get back to work on your cars and stop saying how great this hobby is.

 

[Unkl Ian]

There are Rat Rods,there are rat rods,and even Rat Rodz.
Each one means something different,to each person.

Some are unsafe buckets of junk,thrown together,quick and dirty.
But there are also shiny buckets of junk,they just take longer to assemble.

To my thinking,as long as it is "safe" and reliable,
everything else comes down to person choices.

 

[Willowbilly3]

I think your rod should scare the pee out of you every time you drive it. If you even know which ditch it will dive towards when you hit the brakes it is too predicable.

 

[hotrod preacher]

There are Rat Rods,there are rat rods,and even Rat Rodz.
Each one means something different,to each person.

Some are unsafe buckets of junk,thrown together,quick and dirty.
But there are also shiny buckets of junk,they just take longer to assemble.

To my thinking,as long as it is "safe" and reliable,
everything else comes down to person choices.

you nailed it --"personal choices"-- I'll let you all figure out what the "trend" is, and what to call it, but when its all said and done I'll still drive the same thing- A HOT ROD!!!!!!!