Big Brother is watching & soon will be listening

[fuzz]

Picked this up from the National Coalision Of Motorcyclist newsletter. You know it will bring revenue to the local governments and will spread across the country if we don't fight it.

NOISE CAMERA TO MUFFLE LOUD VEHICLES
First came red-light cameras, followed closely by speed-cameras, and now Calgary will soon become the first municipality to introduce noise cameras to the motoring public.
“Motorcycle riders and hotrod enthusiasts beware: the Noise Snare is one step closer to squelching your high-decibel expressions of mechanical masculinity,” reported the Calgary Herald about the pilot project that pairs a noise-reader with a camera to catch law breakers.
The $112,500 device was offered to Calgary for free as the first city to test the gadget, and if all goes well the city expects to be handing out $200 tickets by summer.
"This is something that will allow municipalities across North America to start enforcing (noise) bylaws. The fact that now it's been proven to be an accurate test is very, very important," said Bill Bruce, the city's director of bylaw services.
Electrical engineer Mark Nesdoly invented the “Noise Snare” after a loud motorcycle awoke his sleeping daughter one night....

 

[JeremyL]

Boo! Big Brother is getting out of hand.

Florida's noise ordinance was overturned earlier this year. Guy who happened to be a lawyer got a ticket for his stereo, fought it, and won. As an audiophile and a car guy I'm glad.

I don't necessarily condone driving through residential neighborhoods blasting the stereo or racking off loud exhaust, but I sure don't support laws that eat away at our rights.

Most of these laws target specific groups of people and are selectivly enforced. In my hometown, for example, you can get a $500.00 fine for a stereo heard from 25 feet away, but packs of motorcycles can blast through town all day and the LEO's turn a blind eye.

 

[donsrods]

Now see, I am on the other side of the fence on this one. I would love to be a cop and would ticket every idiot who feels he has to entertain everyone within 5 miles with his rap music stereo ! When we lived at our last place I was constantly going outside and telling someone to turn their dang stereo down because the bass was knocking stuff off of shelves in our home. One like like that was just sitting beside me in traffic yesterday and it is really annoying.

As for the loud pipes........I like those.

Don

 

[Crossfire]

Noisey

As far as Florida's noise ordinance being overturned,where you got that is just bull. Each city or town has their own take on it,depends on their idea of to loud. Drive through Groveland or Mascotte,Fla with the stereo blasting and its an $89 ticket. Law states if they can hear it from 25 yards away its to loud. Its almost as bad as these stereo shops are allowed to sell and install neon lights on these kids cars then the cops stop them and gives them a ticket because certain colors are against the law to run. Bout the only thing you can do in Florida anymore without there being a law against it is (Breathe ).

 

[EnglishBob]

Compared to a lot of Canadian towns we get off lightly in Calgary and our Hot Rodding rules are for now easy enough to live with.
I think the noise by law is already in place North of here and they've had a few 'teething' problems so I'm not too concerned....yet !!!!!!!!!!!

 

[JeremyL]

As far as Florida's noise ordinance being overturned,where you got that is just bull. Each city or town has their own take on it,depends on their idea of to loud. Drive through Groveland or Mascotte,Fla with the stereo blasting and its an $89 ticket. Law states if they can hear it from 25 yards away its to loud. Its almost as bad as these stereo shops are allowed to sell and install neon lights on these kids cars then the cops stop them and gives them a ticket because certain colors are against the law to run. Bout the only thing you can do in Florida anymore without there being a law against it is (Breathe ).

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2011-05-12-car-stereo-law-florida_n.htm

Those lights specifically state on the packaging that they're for off road use only.

Years ago I ran a car audio & home theater store and used to compete in a few of the various crank it up shows. I still have a 150 plus DB stereo in a car set up for pure sound quality. Listen to the live version of Hotel California in my car and then tell me you don't appreciate a good car stereo.

I like loud stereos. I like loud pipes. But I don't necessarily want to hear them at 4 in the morning when I'm trying to sleep. There's a place & time for everything, and making a law isn't the way to do it.

 

[gassersgarage]

Sorry, but if motorcyclists would use common sense, there wouldn't be a need for those cameras. It's only enforcing laws that are already on the books.

 

[Dr Crankenstein]

Excessive noise is excessive noise, regardless of the source. In my area, residential zones are "quiet zones" from 7AM to 10PM. No chainsaws, jackhammers, stereos or open exhaust. Turn down that 5000 watt stereo, and leave your straight pipe machine at home after hours. Simple, idn't it?

The pinhead in Calgary should worry about his own neighborhood, not mine. Quit trying to be a hero to the people, be one to the daughter, and shut up. The rest of us can look after ourselves.

Writing another law doesn't suddenly convert ignorant people to have respect and common sense, it punishes the people who do.

 

[JeremyL]

Sorry, but if motorcyclists would use common sense, there wouldn't be a need for those cameras.

This. It boils down to common sense, which seems to be lacking by majority of people nowadays.

One of my daily drivers years ago used to be a 390/4 speed 64 Galaxie. It had Hooker super comp headers, teeny tiny 12 inch long hollowed out glass pack mufflers, and the system ended with two 4 inch echo tips out the back. It was LOUD if you put your foot in it. I used to drive it to swap meets & shows all over NE Texas and never ever had anyone say anything about the exhaust being too loud.

Later on I picked up an 85 F-250 diesel/4 speed to use as a driver/work truck. I put full dual exhaust on it with no mufflers and the same style 4 inch diameter echo tips. I also put tweaked injectors and turned up the pump so it would really belch out coal black diesel smoke if you put your foot in it or really loaded it down. Never had anyone complain that it was too loud or that it was blowing too much smoke.

It's all in how you drive. Same goes for loud stereos, it's all in how you use it.

 

[donsrods]

You guys are right about it being common sense and consideration for those around you. I never bring my 27 to the apartment complex where we live unless my headers are capped up, even in daytime. It would not be right for me to chastise some kid for his loud stereo then for me to come in with open headers.

However, I do enjoy sitting at a red light with open headers when the guy or girl next to me has a booming bass stereo thumping away. It is so cool to see them roll up their windows for a change ! [cl[cl[cl

Don

 

[cycledog]

Excessive noise is excessive noise, regardless of the source. In my area, residential zones are "quiet zones" from 7AM to 10PM. No chainsaws, jackhammers, stereos or open exhaust. Turn down that 5000 watt stereo, and leave your straight pipe machine at home after hours. Simple, idn't it?

The pinhead in Calgary should worry about his own neighborhood, not mine. Quit trying to be a hero to the people, be one to the daughter, and shut up. The rest of us can look after ourselves.

Writing another law doesn't suddenly convert ignorant people to have respect and common sense, it punishes the people who do.

So you can be as noisy as you want from 10pm till 7am? That doesn't make much sense.

 

[Blue Eyed Devil]

So you can be as noisy as you want from 10pm till 7am? That doesn't make much sense.

I think he meant the other way around... [S

 

[EnglishBob]

The 'pinhead' will probably makes tons of money because it's blatantly obvious the 'rest of us' can't look after ourselves or each other and have total disregard for anyone else.
It's a selfish world we live in now and sometimes it needs addressing by 'outsiders' and might wake up others so we don't all get punished.
If common sense was as prevelant as opinions we wouldn't need equipment like this.

 

[Blue Eyed Devil]

If common sense was as prevelant as opinions we wouldn't need equipment like this.

So the government can go ahead and put a camera in your home, because if you aren't doing anything wrong you shouldn't worry about it right? I mean it's just common sense isn't it?

Spare me.

Most of us are perfectly capable of looking after ourselves and others, but those who are too weak to do so simply rely on government and laws to defend them as well as feed them. Government in turn uses this as a scapegoat to slowly push the people down, removing all freedoms under the guise of "looking out for us" until we no longer have control of our own lives. People with attitudes like yours simply feed the machine.

 

[sgtpontiac]

Now see, I am on the other side of the fence on this one. I would love to be a cop and would ticket every idiot who feels he has to entertain everyone within 5 miles with his rap music stereo ! As for the loud pipes........I like those.

Don

When it comes to traffic tickets...we write very few for excessive noise per se...If a citizen complains we will speak to the violator once then after that it's a public peace complaint not a motor vehicle violation.... what the public has to remember is that a Police officer's peace cannot be disturbed[S....that is, in a public area....houses, apts, and such....a citizen complaint has to be made for us to take action.....traffic wise we can issue for loud exhaust or music but frankly, we don't really have much of an issue in that regards...most people take and heed a warning and when going thur our town, turn down the music...what they do elsewhere is some other cops problem.....

 

[Torch]

FLEX YOUR RIGHTS . org http://www.flexyourrights.org/


What to do when you are pulled over http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hkpOpLvBAr8

Everything I say here I swear is fiction and in no way represents the truth...
I've gotten those red light camera tickets they run the light at 3 seconds and it's a 45 mph offramp to a 35 mph street.
It should technically be about a 4.5 to 5 second yellow. If you not watching for it you will miss the change to yellow and be going too fast to stop before being in the intersection.
If you almost stop and do a california roll...it does not take a picture...you have to be going fast enough to not be able to stop safely for the camera to be activated.
It's a catch 22 it only takes pictures of cars not speeding or going too fast for the conditions but also not able to stop for the 3 second yellow. The intersection never had a problem with red light runners they just put the cameras up at the intersections with the most traffic.

But that's not my point.

The first time I tripped the cam. My master cylinder pooped out and I had about 2k lb of tools and equipment in the back of my 1 ton van. I had to roll the van around the corner onto the shoulder putt putt and and parking brake it home where I replaced the master cylinder.
I got a cam ticket in the mail.
there are discrepancies between getting a ticket from a sworn officer and getting one from a camera clerk.
In some places they have an officer reviewing all the cam shots
A lot of places the red light cam company reviews the shots and makes a recommendation to the police which shots meet their criteria for ticketing.
It could be a sworn officer or a non officer reviewing the images.
It bypasses the ability for a sworn officer personally present at the scene of the event to use his professional training to review ALL of the present evidence and determine if an offence had been committed or if there were exigent circumstances.
The use of Cameras shields the officer from reviewing all available evidence requiring the officer to review evidence that points only to guilt without allowing the officer to balance that evidence against any other sensible evidence.
It is wrongfully using the power of the badge to enforce a civil claim with extreme prejudice.

But that's not my point either

The letter I received asked me to either pay the "fine" or request a "hearing with the police department".
It did not in any way reflect my right to remain silent or my right to a trial.
Anything you say to an officer can and will be used against you in court.
This means an honest man who has committed no crime may in fact incriminate himself by speaking to police not just by mistakenly saying something the wrong way but merely by misunderstanding on the officer's part. But anything the officer can say he heard you say or he thought he heard you say becomes fact in court.

Law enforcement of any badge has ZERO authority or power to hold court.
so I did not request a "hearing with the photo enforcement office"
Only a court established under the constitution has the power to hold court.
So I awaited my day in court. My summons never came. The "ticket" i received is not an order to appear in court but only a request to pay the alleged fine or make a request to come in and talk about it(give them more evidence)
A process server or officer must personally issue you an order to appear in court or the court itself must send a notice to your address of record.
A warrant for your arrest may not be issued unless you fail to respond to an order to appear.
A fine may not be levied for an offence unless you have been charged in court, and been found guilty by trial, or have entered a plea of guilty.

I figured since the police have no right to hold court I cannot be arrested for refusing to pay the alleged fine or for not requesting a hearing with the police.
I did not contact the police instead choosing to remain silent under the 5th and argue my case in court.
I was never called to court
But I did receive letters from the police department and from the red light camera company trying to collect on the alleged fine. I did not pay and most importantly ...I did not respond in ANY way... 100% silence. anything you say they WILL use against you and you cannot predict how they will use anything against you. you can't outsmart them running your mouth.... it's their system.

I also received a claim from a bill collector trying to collect on the alleged fine. I also did not respond in any way because the bill collector is acting as agent of the police.

I was waiting for the thing to appear in my consumer credit report as an unpaid bill and was having prepared by a lawyer a case to sue the red light camera company, the police department, and the collections agency for
1) violating my rights to a trial
2) violating the laws governing collections and consumer reports under the commerce act
3) violating my rights to a jury
4) violating my rights to due process

The police department does not take the step over the Rubicon and invoke my attorney.

I received another red light camera ticket just was going too fast to stop for the light (but not speeding) came down the ramp 45 mph and went around the corner about 20. light changed as I was slowing to 20...
They always stop collections and never pursue it in court.
In every case where anyone has responded to them in any way they have pursued it in court because the people opened their mouth or the people agreed to pay.
If you give any excuse, you are admitting it was you in the vehicle and from this moment on you have absolutely no case.
I suspect the key is in remaining silent and refusing to respond to anything but an order to appear in court where I would also have remained silent and left it to an attorney if I was called to court. There are many other legal remedies to pursue if called to court as the red light camera system is operating in a grey area at best.perhaps this information will assist others


Your taking your own chances by remaining silent. They do operate under the threat of increased resistance brings increased reprisal which is of course the way of the Tyrant.
Myself I spent 2 years in medium security prison and several years on parole as a youth (for actually being a real criminal) so as a free and lawful man fighting against government corruption it's no skin off my nose. They have a saying in the joint when your threatened by the system "'f- you I can do that time standing on my head".

Not to sound flippant, incarceration is a big deal but the bully pulpit exploits fear. If your not afraid, it changes the whole engagement. The system actually treats you with more respect if your respectful, knowledgeable, (orderly of course) and not afraid. I'm not glorifying crime. I'm just using the unusual perspective of a former criminal to highlight a different perspective the ordinary person who has not been through the system usually does not have without special training.
There's a reason and an ethic behind every law and this red light camera thing... it sets a dangerous precedence.
when you go from a system where the laws are too numerous and the punishments severe based upon the fact that most people get away with breaking the law, to a system where no-one gets away with anything...where is the justification for deterrence?
Deterrence is when the punishment for crossing the line is more extreme than what would be just. The excuse being it will prevent people from crossing the line.
Part of that is also having a broad net of excess regulation. Sooner or later people will get themselves caught. most of the time they have done much more than they have been caught doing. it is reasoned that excessive punishment beyond what would be appropriate for what the person was charged with makes good on that.
Having many laws ensures that if someone is doing wrong, if they don't get caught on this they will get caught on that. It sets many traps for the criminal lessening the chance of the criminal getting away with it.

We are moving into a world where technology and prolific legislation makes it easier to incriminate more people with more offences... and all this deterrence now keeping the peace no longer has the justification previously due to the former difficulty in catching criminals and few laws to be broken.
As the technology increases the efficiency and the ability of the government to keep the peace, the weight and cost of the law upon the people should therefore diminish.
The reverse is taking place, as technology increases, the incrimination and marginalisation of society is escalating.

 

[EnglishBob]

So the government can go ahead and put a camera in your home, because if you aren't doing anything wrong you shouldn't worry about it right? I mean it's just common sense isn't it?

Spare me.

Most of us are perfectly capable of looking after ourselves and others, but those who are too weak to do so simply rely on government and laws to defend them as well as feed them. Government in turn uses this as a scapegoat to slowly push the people down, removing all freedoms under the guise of "looking out for us" until we no longer have control of our own lives. People with attitudes like yours simply feed the machine.

If for one you lived in Calgary you'd understand why this machine will be put in service.
The lack of common sense I refer to is the frickin idiots on the bikes and cars with straight pipes who think it sensible to race,burn out and do donuts in residential areas and they bitch and whine when they get tickets.
It puts pressure on the do-gooders and fuels the arguments for the anti rod brigade and therefore can affect us all...more so me right now because it's coming here soon.
In this case as in many others the Authorities are protecting the rights of the many by oppressing the few,problem is it's the few who draw attention to themselves by being stupid that jeopardize my hobby.
I ride bikes and have straight pipes because I believe they help save lives and living in calgary where the riding season is at best 6 months long but most times more like 5 we need all the help we can get from car drivers who forget we exist and bikers who need refresher courses every spring.

 

[the reverend muddy grimes]

I kinda agree with Don on this one. If your music is so loud you cant hear me shooting you because it woke me up..........Oh wait, I cant admit that in public.....Carry on...

 

[sgtpontiac]

Rev you crack me up.....!!

I kinda agree with Don on this one. If your music is so loud you cant hear me shooting you because it woke me up..........Oh wait, I cant admit that in public.....Carry on...

I agree that music so loud it rattles the windows as they drive by should be addressed....we just don't have much of an issue with it here...and the ones we spoke to make it a point to turn it down when they get into town...loud pipes on cars?? It has to be nutz loud to get my attention and the fact that somebody just lost a muffler or the exhaust fell off....I don't get real excited unless I see them running around for a couple weeks like that...some people just can't fix this stuff as fast....like a cracked windshield...warning, wait a week and see if it's repaired if not....a fix it ticket and bob's your uncle....Maybe I'm getting soft in my old age??? [S

 

[Torch]

I hate straight pipes...hate em. they always gotta lay on those tard pipes full blast when they pass you with the window down or see you walking down the sidewalk all nice and peaceful.

Sarge, How do you feel about the following observation of mine, Am I nuts?

"As the technology increases the efficiency and the ability of the government to keep the peace, the weight and cost of the law upon the people should therefore diminish.
The reverse is taking place, as technology increases, the incrimination and marginalisation of society is escalating."- ME

I feel like if it continues on the path it's on it will reach a point where good and ordinary people have little or no respect for the law if were not there already

I had this saying that bad cops don't hurt the bad guys they only hurt the good cops and bad legislation hurts all cops. Did it ever used to be a world where the cops would say to the legislators "these laws are crap, the good people will not abide by them and were not going to enforce them"?
Because it seems now there is no questioning of legislation or regulation and everyone is "Just doing their job"
There doesn't seem to be any Marshall Dillon or Lone Ranger who's gonna make it right. Every good cop that stands up for what is right against the system has the whole thing brought down on them like Terry Yeakey