Cars Without Titles

[Mike P]

Yeah here in AZ a VIN verification by the State cops is required on any out of state title transfers (and at least a couple of years ago they were not accepting recenty issued Alabama titles from Broadway title).

I think the bigest PIA one I had lately was my 37 Dodge. When I got it it came with a title (it had been registered up to 10 years before I bought it). Only problem was I couldn't find the VIN anywhere on the truck. I did a title transfer anyway just to get it in my name. As it ws already an AZ title it was just walk the paperwork thru DMV.

Finally bought a shop manual and found the number on the frame......yup didn't match the title. So load the truck on a trailer and haul it into DMV. Guess what...their little book told them exactly where the VIN was located. Anyway, about 4 hours of title searches and checking the national data base to verify that it had never been reported stolen and I had a correct title.

I did all this prior to putting a bunch of time and money into building it. Chances are I could have gone for years and never been stopped or had the VIN checked......but what if? The truck could at a minimum have been impounded until the title was straightened out. Selling it to someone (say out of state) who had to have the vehicle vin verified would have been a nightmare.

 

[gassersgarage]

There was a T-bucket on collector car web-site. The discription was a 27 T-bucket, however, the builder said it had a 57' Austin title. That would be big trouble for an out-of-state buyer. In my old street racing days, one of the guys I knew built a T-bucket from scratch. He bought his title from the back of Hemmings so the bucket is registered as an old MG. I would hate to be them if they get caught.

 

[donsrods]

Mike brings up a very good point. Most of the old cars had numbers (if they even had numbers) etched into the frame, or sometimes they used the engine number as the ID. The problem is, how many rodders use the original frame or engine? My Dodge came as a body and grille shell. The frame is custom made out of 2 x 4 tubing.

I have also seen stock frames so rusted that any numbers that were there at one time are long gone.

It is not a problem if you are titling a car as something close to what it was originally, like if you are using the title from a '29 Ford for a '31 ford, but in the instance of the Austin title, I think flags would really go up if and when you get pulled over or have a wreck.

The other way to go is get a reconstructed title, but that is problematic too. Some States want you to bring that car up to current year standards, including safety stuff, like airbags and all. Yeah, right. And sometimes you have to provide receipts for all the parts used, especially major components, like the engine and tranny. In my case, my engine was a free boat engine that we replaced on a customers boat. I got the old one by hauling it away. How do I prove that?

I'm afraid it is only going to get worse though, as the bureaucrats start passing more and more laws clamping down on honest rodders like us who are just trying to build something fun to drive.

Don

 

[rab71]

Yeah it's a shame... What it boils down to is the government wants its cut... Like now I am building my truck it came on a big ugly nasty 72 F150 frame.... So I built my own... I did find the Vin on the cab luckily and it does match the title even more lucky. But the truck looks nothing like it did originally.

 

[35Mastr]

You just have be very careful on what you buy if your in the states that do check.It will be a nasty nightmare if you dont.

 

[Modsquad]

Anyone know the VIN location on a '34 International Truck cab?

 

[sakustoms]

So I'm trying to get a 36 chevy PU that doesn't have a title and I don't think it has a vin tag either. What do I do in a situation like this? Will a bill of sale from the owner be enough to get a title?

 

[Bonehead]

Depends on the state, call or go to DMV and find out what it will take. Start now because it may take some time. Or start looking for an historical document.

 

[sakustoms]

thanks bonehead. I looked on ebay for some documents but found nothing. I'll spend more time once I have the vehicle. It won't be started for some time so I'll take care of everything ahead of time.

 

[donsrods]

sakustoms: I am from your State, Pennsylvania. originally. Things have changed in the 25 years since we left, but I think it is probably still a pretty rigid, difficult State DMV-wise. We brought a '70 Caddy from California when we moved back, and one number was messed up on the title. They put me through all kinds of hoops until finally I gave up and bought a second wrecked Caddy, popped the number plate off and pop rivited the new one on. I know it wasn't totally kosher, but it was the only way I could get the car on the road in Pa.

Sometimes you do what you gotta do.

Don

 

[dawg]

does anyone have a source for historical documents?...

 

[sakustoms]

sakustoms: I am from your State, Pennsylvania. originally. Things have changed in the 25 years since we left, but I think it is probably still a pretty rigid, difficult State DMV-wise. We brought a '70 Caddy from California when we moved back, and one number was messed up on the title. They put me through all kinds of hoops until finally I gave up and bought a second wrecked Caddy, popped the number plate off and pop rivited the new one on. I know it wasn't totally kosher, but it was the only way I could get the car on the road in Pa.

Sometimes you do what you gotta do.

Don

Damn Don. That's not what I wanted to hear. lol. Well, in this case that may not be such an easy option. Know anybody with an extra 36 chevy truck who doesn't need a title anymore?

Guess I'll see what I gotta do when the time comes. Does anyone know if there is a number stamped on the frame on these things or anything like that? I know there are no tags on the body.

Thanks - Eric

 

[RUSTY50F1]

sakustoms; Look on the top of the frame on the pass side just behind the axle and just before the front cab bolts.

 

[sakustoms]

sakustoms; Look on the top of the frame on the pass side just behind the axle and just before the front cab bolts.

Thanks rusty. I'll do that as soon as I get her home. Should be this Friday with any luck. My buddy and I are planning on making an 8hr run out to drop off a car and pick up the truck and then do an 8hr run back home. Gonna be one long night as we are leaving at 7pm. But it's ALL WORTH IT..

 

[vista roofer]

did anyone see the report about the 56'? t-bird that was sold on e-bay out of ohio to a guy in california and it came up stolen some 20 years prior. the guy that owned it got it back restored.the car had been stolen somewhere in southern cal. (san diego) i think. what a bummer selling a car honestly and lose it because it was stolen.

 

[donsrods]

I saw that story about the T Bird. There have been lots of similar ones like the guy who restored a Mustang and then some guy shows up with the title and the cops and takes it away on a flatbed.

It is even getting tougher here in Florida to title a car. We used to be pretty laid back on older cars, but now they put you through the hoops especially if the title is from out of state.

I have never done the "reconstructed" title thing. My understanding is that sometimes the car has to incorporate modern features and current emissions controls to get one of these titles, but I don't know if that is true or not.

Don

 

[shizzy]

the sad part is the DMV knows as much as they dont know. Last summer I picked up a beat up old fiberglass canoe from a friend. It was his GF's dead EX Husbands old canoe. he gave it to me for free. it was bent, cracked, patched numerous times and had many layers of house paint on it. when I went in to the DMV to get a sticker for it of course I couldnt mention anything about the dead guy, so I just handed them the #'s off the hull. The lady told me there werent enough numbers. finally after some sweet talking and me showing her a camera full of pictures proving its "value" we "decided" it was a 1974 and she gave me my sticker. once I got home and flipped through the MN boaters handbook she handed me I noticed that prior to November of 1971 boats had a hull # and not a serial #. so after all that grief on a 35 year old canoe. I do prefer to get a title in my hand.

 

[joehalford01]

I've got an extra volvo 544 title if that will help , I'm sure it's a lot easier to get these things done when you have a trailer to haul the car around. One of the reasons I gave up on my 544 "projects" when my wife waved a corvette under my nose. I noticed in CA at least, it's not impossible to get a title but they managed to destroy any possible loop-holes you could use to make it easier. Out of state cars, no title cars, and cars with a title that have not been registered in the last four years all go through pretty much the same process of verification at the dmv or via a highway patrol officer.

 

[Joeb]

damn, sucks to be in America... over here, possession is literally 9/10ths of the law. If I buy a car without papers, for under $5000 (I think) and without rego. then its mine to do what I want with. If the "owner" wants it back, they need to have filed a police report when it went missing. And our "DMV" only keeps records for 7 years, anything before that is fair game...

 

[hitman]

skeptical

Although I do not doubt that this could happen, the likelyhood of a guy just throwing his hands in the air and letting some pin head drive off with the car after a "$20,000" investment is entirely unlikely.

Might I suggest that the unless you live in Lousiana or Wisconsin possession is 9-10ths of the law. In order for this pin-**** to get his hands on a car he would need to have a official writ from a Judge. Furthermore, any moron who would allow the jack-ass to actually have possession after the fact, and re-coup his costs is not too swift.
"Hey hitman...the police and some guy are here to pick up his passed-on fathers car"

"Oh really? GREAT! Let me get the bill together for the 2 years of storage, and the bills for all the work. "

"Here you go officer, the bill for $80,000." "Oh? Whats this? He can not pay it all up front?"

"I have no choice but to place a lein on the unit...."

A phone call and $150 will get you a lein... 30 days will get you a title.

I've managed a impound for a finance company now for 10 years. People have tried everything possible in this time. I've have a spot less record in this time. I actually had to physically restrain folks from taking their automobile back. The police generally do not want to get involved due to it being "a civil matter".
The only way this could happen is thru a Judge period.

Men, buy your field car. Make certain it has vin#. Call in a favor from your buddy who ownes a dealership/mechanic shop/anything automotive related. Pay him to file the paperwork for a lein. 30 days (depending on the BMV back log) you will have your title.