Do you need a title for your car???????

[donsrods]

There is a guy on Ebay selling a bunch of NY registrations:

http://motors.search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZ1930hemirod


Now, it is a crapshoot because the title may or may not be good in your State. What "some people" do is buy a registration like this and the car they are building becomes the car shown on that registration. I am not advocating this practice, but I know people who have done this and it works fine.
Even if you are building a 29 Dodge for example and you get it titled as a Durant, who knows but you? If a cop ever stops you for something the chances of him being astute enough to know it isn't a Durant are slim to none.

As you can see by the bidding, some titles go for big bucks because of the popularity of that model and year, but others go cheaper. I hear that some people generally spend about $ 100 for their titles. I think what they do is obliterate any serial numbers on their cars and maybe even restamp the numbers from the new title somewhere on the car.

Again, I am not saying this is the way to do it, but let's face it, we are not car thieves in this hobby, just honest people who take old cars that might not have titles for years and years, and we fix them up into hot rods.

Don

 

[DonMan]

I see this a lot on craigslist too. I don`t really see a problem with it. I think we all know that this goes on and hey, if it helps get a rod on the road, I say amen.

 

[gassersgarage]

Where I see a problem is when a rod gets stolen and is re-registered with another title. On several of the other sites, there have been cars stolen and never recovered.

Also, some states do not have salvage titles. Cars in California carry a salvage title if the car was ever totaled. Unscrupulous sellers will re-register a car in a state that doesn't have salvage titles, then bring the car back to California to re-register with a new title.

Unfortunately, California DMV only keeps registration back 6 years. After that, it falls out of the Stolen Vehicle System. Fortunately, the NTSB has been hitting up auction sites and inspecting cars. Every now and then, you hear about a car being recovered decades later.

 

[Willowbilly3]

It's really too bad the anal DMV laws have created a cottage indusrty of selling titles. I think if you can present documented proof that you built the car then you should be able to title it without huge assessments or hassles.
Now the truth is that I have used a NY reg to title my rod and actually have another one for a 31 coupe and an open title for a 38 coupe.

 

[dyce51]

I know here in Ohio it would be easier to buy a title than it is to get a title from the BMV. I've been through it in the past with a chopper I built....boy was that a headache...sold the bike to someone out of state without a title. The inspections are rough...You must provide paper for everything and if you built it youself....oooohhh boy are you opening a can of worms!!!

 

[donsrods]

I was trying to do a couple of things by posting this. First to let anyone who might need a title know this guy had some, and secondly, to say that this practice is being done every day of the week somewhere and generally it works fine.

When I built my '27 I intended on getting a reconstructed from parts title for it, actually went as far as picking up the DMV form. But it became such a hassle with no guarantees that I ended up buying a Nevada title from a vendor at a car show and using it. Now, is that the absolutely correct way to do it, no, but I know I didn't steal the car or the parts that went into it and needed to get it in my name so I could register it and insure it.

While I realize the government has a responsibility to do everything possible to protect us and deter car theft, the majority of us in this hobby are honest, hardworking people who simply want to pursue our hobby and enjoy our cars when they are finished. There has to be some common sense here on the part of the authorities. The crackdowns we are seeing in places like California are catching the wrong guys IMO.

Don

 

[T2T]

Here's the problem.......................If I were to sell old "grampa's" registrations that I found in the garage to five different people and each regestered a car using on from 1944 one from 1945 etc. ALL having the same VIN #. Years later one of these cars gets stolen, that VIN# is put on the hot sheet, that means ALL the car with that VIN are on the hot sheet........stolen!! That's taking a pretty big chance.

 

[Willowbilly3]

Here's the problem.......................If I were to sell old "grampa's" registrations that I found in the garage to five different people and each regestered a car using on from 1944 one from 1945 etc. ALL having the same VIN #. Years later one of these cars gets stolen, that VIN# is put on the hot sheet, that means ALL the car with that VIN are on the hot sheet........stolen!! That's taking a pretty big chance.

I'm going out on a limb here but I would just guess that states with the reg being proof of ownership would require you turn in the old one very year or this would have been a huge problem a long time ago.

 

[T2T]

They don't...........................at least not here in RI, all you need is a bill of sale and a registration or a COPY of one! This is for vehicles ten years old or older.

 

[Willowbilly3]

They don't...........................at least not here in RI, all you need is a bill of sale and a registration or a COPY of one! This is for vehicles ten years old or older.

So you have a stack of past registrations in the glove box, everyone of them proof of ownership? Then you could sell the car 10 times skip town and let the buyers slug it out?

 

[donsrods]

No, I don't think that is the case. Some States called titles "registrations". These were not a yearly thing, but used to prove one time ownership. When you got a car from someone they signed the back of the registration showing it was now being sold to you. An unsigned registration, like the ones on Ebay, are effectively clean titles.

As an example, the title I used for the '27 was a Nebraska "registration". It was all that the owner of that car would have gotten the very first time the car was bought. I think we are confusing the word with the once a year owners card or registration card we now get to carry in the vehicle.

Don

 

[T2T]

Don is correct but on ebay right now are registrations and titles, and they are confusing. If you buy a title I don't think you would have a problem........I bought a registration from a guy on the regular ebay not ebay motors, after the auction he asked me what people did with these and I said just collect them. He asked if I wanted more naturally I said yes. He sent me a small pile of 'em...........including one for a '32 roadster and a few for model T's. Here in Rhode Island these can be used to register a car you might not otherwise be able to register, but at a risk. I do have registrations from different years for the same car. If I were to sell them to two or 3 different people and they used them to register there car, all cars would have the same VIN!!! THAT is the risk....................This information is what I know about my home state, your's may be different.
By the way, you can get "titles" from a title company much cheaper than from these guys on ebay........

 

[RUSTY50F1]

Was it taken off; It doesn't show any on the site.

 

[LOST ANGEL]

Take a peek at this.-MIKE http://crankshaftcoalition.com/wiki/How_to_title_a_hot_rod

 

[Willowbilly3]

I just went to the local S.D. dmv and ask how to go about titleing an old baryard car that I made into a hotrod and they gave me an afidavit but weren't really sure about that so they gave me the card of an inspector that works for the state. He hasn't returned my call but I plan to go through the process and chronicle it. Unless it gets to that surity bond crap.

 

[440shorty]

Registration vs. title

I have first-hand experience with New York state and the difference between registrations and titles. Here's the long version:

I grew up in Maryland, where vehicles have titles. You know what I mean - a nice, fancy piece of paper with the vehicle information, VIN, owner's information, address, a title number that is on file with the state. Also has a space to list any lien and lienholder information. Looks kinda like a stock certificate.
Flip it over, and the on the back are several forms: A transfer of ownership form - has places for the "seller," who is the same person as the owner listed on the front, to sign and to print their name, as well as the co-seller, and similar lines for the "buyer" to print and sign. Below that is the application for title and registration, which really means the metal license plates, stickers, and a registration card that matches those. Below that is a separate section for dealers assignment of title, and another for dealer re-assignment of title - these are so that dealers don't have to process the title before re-sale.

So I had a '69 Dart all through college. We officially move to New York State (same place I'd attended college). I dutifully change my drivers license over, and turn in my Maryland title and get New York tags and registration. So I wait about three weeks for the title to come in the mail (like in Maryland). No title, so I go down to the DMV and ask them where my title is? SURPRISE!! New York state does not title vehicles older than 1972. Never have. They tell me my registration is proof of ownership - that 3x5 scrap of paper that simply has the basic car info, tag number, and my basic info. There isn't even any place that mentions ownership, if I recall correctly. I left madder than ...
When I moved to North Carolina, I turned in my "registration" and got a NC title back! Imagine that.

So, the NY registration is barely proof of ownership, and easily lost. I'm not sure if an expired registration card that is lost can even be replaced. I guess it might depend on how long ago it had expired. Not like here in Maryland, where the last owner on record can apply for lost title and get a new title that supercedes the old one. The other question that comes to mind is this:
In Maryland ( a title state ), a vehicle can be retitled when sold without registration i.e. tags. If one buys an old car in NY, but does not want to register it right away, how does the owner prove ownership in the meantime to the state, or someone else? A bill of sale?

Unfortunately, tag and title laws vary from state to state. Even worse, they have changed over the years. That is where the really old cars bring difficulties - it is likely that the last owner on record (if the easily accessed [read: in the computer database]) is deceased if the car has been sitting long enough, like our barn and field finds. Then what??

Good luck to anyone stuck in this situation.

440shorty

 

[Willowbilly3]

I did some follow up and got passed around until I was dealing with a lady from the capitol. So in S.Dak. you can get an afidavit for a builder and keep track of everything you put into the car. Then when it is done you contact them and they have an officer inspect the car, a $25 fee is paid and you get a title. If it looks enough like a certain model, you can title it as such or it may be a homebuilt. If you buy pretty much a whole car then you bring in a bill of sale and they run the numbers and proceed from there to produce a new title.

 

[RPM]

From what I see titling these old hot rods is that the DMV wants their sales tax. They don't really care about the saftey or even if it is stolen. Just have proof of purchase of all the parts you used to build the car. When they look at all those reeipts they are looking for sales tax on all those parts. Here in TN all those parts you bought from Ebay or Jegs, Summit you have to pay the local sales tax on all of those parts. So using a bogus title becomes attractive. You buy a title for $150.00 and save a $1000 on sales tax. Local sales tax here is almost 10%

 

[LordMaximo]

Here in Utah there are several ways to skin the kat!
However, if you really want to beat the system, I have the best solution.
First, you need about 25 pictures of the ride, showing all the work required to bring it back to the OEM specs. Then, you do a detailed listing of the cost to bring the ride back to OEM specs. Next you get the actual wieght of the ride and value at scrap price in your local area.
You then type up a letter of results to the DMV, which contains copies of the best pictures, quote prices to have the fixes done on the car and the cost of parts and labor. Then you give them the scale weight from the scrap yard and scrap price of the car. Once they see you are telling the truth of the actual value of said ride, here in Utah, a new crisp title only cost $6.50.

I do actually take the time to spell it out completly for the pencil pusher to read at their level. It takes roughly 90 days to complete this gauntlet, but well worth the hassels over buying a fake title/ registration for your new built rod. I have proccessed several rides this way here in my state, they just want the truth in your efforts. Scrap price for most any ride is less then $200 purse value. And I always claim the vehical as an abondoned ride. I have an acre piece of property and always have junkers showing up on my property. I do a search for the rides on the data bases for cops in the five state area. If the ride shows up as a clean ride, I do a attempt of contact to the last known registered owner. After 90 days, and no one claims the property, I can leagaly go to the state and put an abandonment claim on the ride, and get the title placed in my name.

Most states are very reasonable in getitng titles cleared, only a couple are real annul and California being the worst of all states.

Now with liens on a ride that is abondond, it takes about 6 months to clear the air and either have payment for storage fees or actually having the title signed over due to a mechanics lean, and the actually possession of such ride. Those wheel boots that the city cops use on illegally parked rides, really come in handy for keeping a ride sitting around the property.

Maximo
sorry for the book, just thought some of you might like my little bit on winning over the system..... it always works once put into action.

 

[Willowbilly3]

Max in a lot of states all you could get is a junk title for a junk car. And that is just so you can show ownership to the recycler basically. In S.Dak. they clearly want to see a complete car and inspect it as such (not just pictures) If a basically complete car has a vin tag and you get a (preferrably notorized) bill of sale and the vin is clean they can issue a title.