e-15 fuel headed for the pumps

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Bonehead

Skull Master
Joined
May 11, 2007
Messages
12,264
Location
Fruita, Colorado
What is going on with the US?
Not only will E-15 fuel harm older engines, it has a shorter shelf life and pollutes more.

More info:

But there are many out there who don't see much "green" in ethanol that comes from corn. They note that burning E-15, as the new mix is called, can increase emission of some pollutants. And it can convert land better used for carbon absorption into industrialized agriculture, which consumes fossil fuels.

Among the first to blast EPA was a coalition of agricultural interests, including the American Meat Institute; the Grocery Manufacturers Assn.; the National Council of Chain Restaurants; the National Chicken Council; the American Frozen Food Institute; the American Bakers Assn.; the National Meat Assn. and the National Turkey Federation:
E15 – which would be a 50 percent increase from the currently permitted level of 10 percent ethanol in gasoline – will result in dramatic increases in the portion of the U.S. corn crop used to make fuel rather than food and, when fully implemented, could result in more than 40 percent of the nation’s corn crop being diverted to ethanol production. The corn ethanol industry has received over $30 billion in federal subsidies over the last three decades.

Kate McMahon, biofuels campaign coordinator at Friends of the Earth, used a broader argument:

“The only thing ‘green’ about ethanol is the color of the cash subsidies handed to it by Congress... Increased blends of ethanol in gasoline could increase emissions of toxic air pollutants, in particular nitrogen dioxide, when burned in engines not built to withstand more ethanol. This danger applies to the vast majority of engines currently in service, from cars to boats to lawnmowers.

Ethanol results in more greenhouse gas emissions than gasoline, according to the EPA’s own scientific analysis, which was included in the Renewable Fuels Standard (RFS2) Regulatory Impact Analysis released in February 2010...The production of ethanol also has detrimental effects on human and environmental health.

The production of biofuels feed stocks, like corn for ethanol, takes land away from food production and encroaches on natural ecosystems. Large-scale agricultural production of corn for ethanol often involves massive inputs of fertilizer, requires large quantities of water, contributes to soil erosion, and produces deadly run-off of pollution into freshwater sources — as illustrated by the Gulf of Mexico’s “Dead Zone.”
 
Our government is completely out of control!! November 2, don't re-elect ANYBODY"!! Then we need to start impeachment proceedings against a long list of judges!!..:mad:
 
More e-15 news, ( I am reading up on it)

A major concern involving greater use of ethanol is the likely spike in food prices. An increased demand for corn will likely cause the prices to continue to rise, which concerns food manufacturers, grocery chains and customers alike. The use of E15 is also causing great concern for gas dealerships, which may refuse to sell the fuel. According to automakers, increased ethanol in the fuel could damage engines and even rot fuel lines. If the fuel did end up harming a vehicle or any other device using the fuel, the gas station could be sued.
 
Our government is completely out of control!! November 2, don't re-elect ANYBODY"!! Then we need to start impeachment proceedings against a long list of judges!!..:mad:

I truely hope everyone has the ba11s to do this!!!
 
I was thinking along the line of damage that could be done to the underground storage systems at gas stations. What is the long term effect on the fiberglass storage tanks and components that were introduced in the recent past years before alcohol fuel was the rage, massive leaks since alcohol can and will attack certain resins. (Polyester resin will weep regular gas like a screen door in a submarine, while epoxy resin was ok...until you added alcohol based gas. The epoxy fiberglass tank would get soft and mushy after about 14 days and start to weep at fittings. Found this out years ago when I was still into homebuilt planes and flying.) Considering the lack of research and forethought by those pushing the use of alcohol based fuel, and that it seems to be so detrimental to the automotive fuel supply system that is in place in North America, leaking underground storage tanks seem to be quite possible. A great example of putting the cart before the horse. They have come up with a 'great solution' before they have the system in place to handle it. The 'powers that be' are also trying thier best to unload the cost, inconvenience, and burden onto the end user to deal with. Present vehicles won't run on this fuel, no problem, you just have to replace them. Along with your lawn mower, motorcycle, gas tractor, boat etc. and anything else that is gasoline based and required to run on the gas/alcohol blend. I could go on and on with this, but........enough said!
 
The production of biofuels feed stocks, like corn for ethanol, takes land away from food production and encroaches on natural ecosystems. Large-scale agricultural production of corn for ethanol often involves massive inputs of fertilizer, requires large quantities of water, contributes to soil erosion, and produces deadly run-off of pollution into freshwater sources — as illustrated by the Gulf of Mexico’s “Dead Zone.”

I have issues with the above paragraph - all but the 'takes away from food production' are false arguments.

Is the US Gov. still supporting the price of corn?

I'm an Iowan and am all for new uses for corn, but Ethanol ain't what it's advertised to be.
 
Our government is completely out of control!! November 2, don't re-elect ANYBODY"!! Then we need to start impeachment proceedings against a long list of judges!!..:mad:

Our whole government is totally corrupt! Those slimebags have sold us out to the highest bidder. It's so obvious but no one even seems to care, that's why they call them sheeple! :mad:

ISore
 
I just wondering. Does anyone remember this fuel back in the 70's It was called Gasohol. It was only around for a short time because of all the issues it cause to engines and fuel systems. Here we go again.

Harley does not want you to use more then 10 % ethanol. Right now my 2003 Harley will only run on this fuel if I keep the choke half way out. The other two will not run on this fuel. My 92 Ford ranger does not want to run on this fuel either.

In two cycle fuel is stuff goes bad in about a month. Open fuel systems it goes bad in about the same time. Three month and this fuel is dead. Will not burn.

Talk to the guys that have boats. Nothing but headaches.

After they started using this fuel (E10) the feds made up a new MPG for all the cars out there. If you check the old system to the new MPG it average about 2 -4 mpg less. Something the feds never told us they did. I found out from a dealership when we were shopping for my girl friends car. I check my 92 Ranger and the old system said 20 MPG and the new system said 18 MPG.

Now with E15 I wonder if the MPG will be changed again by the feds.

I know how I'm voting. Unemployment for the elected official.
 
Our government is completely out of control!! November 2, don't re-elect ANYBODY"!! Then we need to start impeachment proceedings against a long list of judges!!..:mad:

democracy doesnt work unless people learn to vote responsibly :)
in the oldn days we could have hung them... [ddd
 
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OK I understand what all of you are saying. Having built and worked on numerous e plants lets remember when katrina hit the gulf and there was a so called fuel production shortage on the east coast. 5 bucks a gallon and running out fast. There is going to come a time when we will have an issue come up where we do not have the ability to produce petroleum based fuel and have NO other option. I built a reflux column in my shop that would make 12 GPH out of Black strap mollasses and fed our cows the Bottoms(waste water) Corn prices didnt go up because of use it went up the same reason gas goes up. GREED . There is more idle land being paid not to be planted than you think. You can bet that if and when the US has a disaster and the GOV has total control of the fuel(like they dont now)you would be figuring out how to burn e 85 or whatever you can get your hands on just to get to work or your kids to school. The first fuel savings they cut in Ga were school busses so we see where our kids education stands. The so called reserves you can bet will never reach Dublin Ga or any other small towns in the US. Yes there are other fuel resources Cellious based ethanol. You think starch and sugar based are bad . Hydrogen ? Battery? Gasification? Solar? We need to start laying the foundation for our kids and grandchildren and if i have to run alky in my rod to put it on the road then i will. There are 2 sides to this and just didnt see one so wnated to give ya a lil to think about. I clearly understand your concerns and i have them to.
 

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Oh sure, it is better than nothing. I just think we are putting the cart before the horse here. Figure out how to make it work first, then implement the plan. There is no plan here.

And you guys are right about the price of corn going up based on greed. There is plenty of corn, and plenty of un-planted ground, but for some reason the price goes up on the food supply, and people think shortage.
 
Well, one thing you don't hear is that the by product makes cattle feed so the food value isn't totally lost. But also the amount of diesel it takes to produce the corn doesn't gain anything in the long run. Another thing 'green' about it is the nasty residue it leaves in a fuel system. I had to replace the whole fuel system on a 2 year old cub cadet. Everything but the fuel tank. The lines were completely shut, no gas could go through. It also destroyed the carb and the fuel pump. Cost the customer about $350 by the time it was all done.
 
Well, one thing you don't hear is that the by product makes cattle feed so the food value isn't totally lost. But also the amount of diesel it takes to produce the corn doesn't gain anything in the long run. Another thing 'green' about it is the nasty residue it leaves in a fuel system. I had to replace the whole fuel system on a 2 year old cub cadet. Everything but the fuel tank. The lines were completely shut, no gas could go through. It also destroyed the carb and the fuel pump. Cost the customer about $350 by the time it was all done.

My friend put an old school electric fuel pump in his car. This stuff took it right out. The rubber parts were just a glob of slime. Thinking it was because it was old we rebuilt it and with in a week it happen again.
 
Oh sure, it is better than nothing. I just think we are putting the cart before the horse here. Figure out how to make it work first, then implement the plan. There is no plan here.

And you guys are right about the price of corn going up based on greed. There is plenty of corn, and plenty of un-planted ground, but for some reason the price goes up on the food supply, and people think shortage.

The only time we are going to figure out how to make it work first is with our backs up against the wall. we have Flex fuel vehicles and conversion kits. You cant expect them to taylor a fuel to meet the same specs that we are using now. We will have to do some work on our end also.The horse is more important than the cart as is the fuel . There is alot of money being wasted with grants i agree. Keep the tax payers out of it because when a disaster happens and the pumps run out big brother will be taking over i promise you that. Even my lil set up will be in their control.
 

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