International L122 B Binder Rat Build

[jfg455]

Over all it is looking good. If you want some small tweaks to work on then here is my $.02

A: The front of the rear fenders needs to be trimmed up level with the cab bottom. Or about 1" under if you want more of a dragger look.

B: the front frame horns need to be angled down more. Probably start in behind the steering box, pie cut the bottom and swing them down more. In line with the angle of the steering box I'm thinking. That would also help with the spreader bar look I mentioned earlier.

C: my thoughts on the chop are this, it does need to be leveled out but I like to see more porportion wht the side window to windshield. Maybe pie the roof like it was mentioned before and take an inch out of the windshield area. OR pie just the roof and move the door window opening up an inch and level. Either way is a ton of metal work.

D: your grille looks killer! The top is in line with the scoupe which sits level with the motor. If you look at the lines through the cab, bed top and cowl they all run down hill from the back to the front. The motor, scoupe and grille top all run down hill from the front to the back. I think this is why you are getting some of the "I think something is off" feeling. I like to see the grille top make a nice clean line all the way through the cowl top. This will usually match up with the body lines on the side of the cab. Moving your top chop around will match this imaginary line as well.

I want to say right out front that this is in no way a slam against your truck. You have done an amazing job with it and it is a killer ride. You were asking for input so I just added my opinion. Most of my stuff doesn't come out half as nice as yours is!

 

[DJ3100]

So, maybe you should just turn it around so the nose faces the street.

Remember there's no rules - you could chop the BACK another inch it you want.

Chop more or don't - it's gonna look killer.

 

[derbyking]

i made a frame mod to the pic in paint and think it helped.if you think so too,could you make a gusset to help the line of the frame transition with the body. same deal here,just giving input....i like the roof

 

[jmlcolorado]

Over all it is looking good. If you want some small tweaks to work on then here is my $.02

A: The front of the rear fenders needs to be trimmed up level with the cab bottom. Or about 1" under if you want more of a dragger look.
This area has a small filler piece that helps the rear fender look. I always had an issue with that area too and even turned the fenders around once apon a time to check the look. Rather then doing that, i did this:

I think this fills in that area nice and keeps it from looking empty.

B: the front frame horns need to be angled down more. Probably start in behind the steering box, pie cut the bottom and swing them down more. In line with the angle of the steering box I'm thinking. That would also help with the spreader bar look I mentioned earlier.
Im still struggling with these. I agree that they need something else done to them, and im thinking they just need to go away. Im focusing on other things right now while i stew on it, but i think a V shaped spreader bar will cure it. I was wanting a bolt in type bar but couldn't figure out how to achieve that with the steering box being bolted to the inside of the frame right where i want the bar to go, but i think i have a solution to that i thought of tonight. My idea is to shorten the frame horns all the way back to the steering box then doing the v shaped bar.
I really want the bar to just go straight through the grill since it would be mostly hidden then but I need to figure out a way to bend 3/4" tube in a perfect 6" circle for that to work.

C: my thoughts on the chop are this, it does need to be leveled out but I like to see more proportion wht the side window to windshield. Maybe pie the roof like it was mentioned before and take an inch out of the windshield area. OR pie just the roof and move the door window opening up an inch and level. Either way is a ton of metal work.
I think the right way (and in my head, the only way) is to rechop the truck. Ive spent alot of time getting the body lines to match up and the roof just throws it all off. I really just dont want to spend the time AGAIN to rechop One of these days ill fix it.

D: your grille looks killer! The top is in line with the scoupe which sits level with the motor. If you look at the lines through the cab, bed top and cowl they all run down hill from the back to the front. The motor, scoupe and grille top all run down hill from the front to the back. I think this is why you are getting some of the "I think something is off" feeling. I like to see the grille top make a nice clean line all the way through the cowl top. This will usually match up with the body lines on the side of the cab. Moving your top chop around will match this imaginary line as well.
With the engine on a 5 degree backward angle (for u-joint life) ive been struggling here too. It makes the trucks frame look bent. I thought my intke had that 5 degrees built into it to make the air cleaner level, but apparently not. The air cleaner is far from done so i might adjust that so it matches the body lines, then make the grill match them as well. I also think ill tack on a "skirt" to the bottom of the air cleaner to fill in some of that dead space that make it looks like its hanging out in the middle of nowhere.

I want to say right out front that this is in no way a slam against your truck. You have done an amazing job with it and it is a killer ride. You were asking for input so I just added my opinion. Most of my stuff doesn't come out half as nice as yours is!
I dont consider any of anyone's input a slam. I appreciate constructive criticism and will take it all in.

See my reply in bold above.

 

[jmlcolorado]

i made a frame mod to the pic in paint and think it helped.if you think so too,could you make a gusset to help the line of the frame transition with the body. same deal here,just giving input....i like the roof

Its funy you say that cause i was thinking the same thing!
The frame Zee has sharp and abrupt lines so i was thinking of doing what you said, only using a softer transition.
Here's my fancy paint work

 

[jmlcolorado]

So, maybe you should just turn it around so the nose faces the street.

Remember there's no rules - you could chop the BACK another inch it you want.

Chop more or don't - it's gonna look killer.

If i turned it around id loose all my legroom

And im starting to think there really SHOULD be some rules:

If you haven't caught one of the many threads on the many forums by now, this thing is for sale........for $3K!!!!!!!!

 

[Dirtyrat]

Just thinking cheap and easy here, but the roof line could be changed by raising the rear cab mounts, even just shimming it up to see how it looks.

On the U-joint thing, if the centerline of the trans output shaft is higher than the rear end, wouldn't that give you the angles to "work" the u-joint anyhow? Looking at the drivelines in some of the vans and trucks, the driveshaft just runs downhill to the rear, meaning the engine is level and the rear end is pretty level, creating an angle at both front and rear u-joint.

 

[DJ3100]

I think the shortened step adds a lot, but I would make it flush with the bottom of the cab and cut the fender to match.

 

[jmlcolorado]

Just thinking cheap and easy here, but the roof line could be changed by raising the rear cab mounts, even just shimming it up to see how it looks.

On the U-joint thing, if the centerline of the trans output shaft is higher than the rear end, wouldn't that give you the angles to "work" the u-joint anyhow? Looking at the drivelines in some of the vans and trucks, the driveshaft just runs downhill to the rear, meaning the engine is level and the rear end is pretty level, creating an angle at both front and rear u-joint.

I would be afraid to mess all the lines up between the bed and cab if I shimmed the rear of the cab. I'd have to shim the rear of the bed up too which would leave me back to where I'm at, just with more of a raked look.

On the driveshaft, with the truck at ride height, the driveshaft is pretty close to level from front to back. So I have a 5* angle down on the engine and 5* up on the rear end. Being that I'm using long trailing arms, the angle on the rear end won't change much in the flex of the suspension, but when it's aired out, I still have 3* on each end.
Here's a photo kinda showing what it looks like.

 

[Dirtyrat]

I would be afraid to mess all the lines up between the bed and cab if I shimmed the rear of the cab. I'd have to shim the rear of the bed up too which would leave me back to where I'm at, just with more of a raked look.

On the driveshaft, with the truck at ride height, the driveshaft is pretty close to level from front to back. So I have a 5* angle down on the engine and 5* up on the rear end. Being that I'm using long trailing arms, the angle on the rear end won't change much in the flex of the suspension, but when it's aired out, I still have 3* on each end.
Here's a photo kinda showing what it looks like.

Just a thought, the rear of the cab is rounded looking at it from a side profile, I don't think you would have to shim up the bed at all... Its not a hard straight line like it is on the bed.

And I understand on your drive line, seems to be good there on the U-joints... However a slight change in engine height and trans height would create that same u-joint angle, allowing you to not have that uphill look in the front...
I really love this truck, I think you are doing a great job of it!

 

[401ton]

It looks to me like you need to bring your tranny up and tip your rear end down to get the correct driveline angle. It looks too straight which is bad because it won't rotate the needles in the u-joint and powder them. It's happened to me before. Looks could be decieving, but just going off your picture, that's my view of it.

 

[GJunktionMike]

I noticed your driveway has a step angle. Roll it on to a flat street and look at it (pics also for us). Or turn it around in the driveway, the down hill slope will realy chang the look. I agree with trimming the bed/running boards to match the bottom of the cab.

 

[DJ3100]

It must be a photo illusion, but the engine (valve covers maybe) looks like a lot more than 5 degrees to the frame.

And yeah, turning the truck around in the driveway will change the whole look of the chop and engine angle.

 

[Studebaker]

Highly agreed

It looks to me like you need to bring your tranny up and tip your rear end down to get the correct driveline angle. It looks too straight which is bad because it won't rotate the needles in the u-joint and powder them. It's happened to me before. Looks could be decieving, but just going off your picture, that's my view of it.

Yep im with this guy, im using the same frame on my ride and u should consider raising the tranny or lowering the motor - my .03$ worth[

 

[jmlcolorado]

Yeah the whole driveway slope doesnt help matters a bit. The garage is the only flat surface i have around, so ill try to snap a couple in there.

When i installed the engine and rear end, i leveled the frame in all directions, then i put an angle finder on the output shaft of the trans and locked it in at 5* down, then cut off the axle perches nd welded new ones with the input prop at 5* up. I don't want to go more since that would make those angles more extreme. I'm pretty confident those are set well.

I might have to get a couple buddy's over to turn this thing around so that its downhill.

 

[jmlcolorado]

It looks to me like you need to bring your tranny up and tip your rear end down to get the correct driveline angle. It looks too straight which is bad because it won't rotate the needles in the u-joint and powder them. It's happened to me before. Looks could be decieving, but just going off your picture, that's my view of it.

Does this photo help visualize it better?

Kinda are to see but there are lines for the frame, trans and rear end.

 

[401ton]

Does this photo help visualize it better?

Looks too straight in the pic....
I would:
1. Measure the tranny yoke. Then measure the drive shaft yoke/angle with a straight edge or whatever. It should be about 3 degrees different and of course pointed down in the back.
2. Measure the rear end yoke. Then measure the drive shaft yoke/angle with a straight edge or whatever. It should be about 3-5 degrees different with driveshaft pointing up and away ofcourse. I give the rear end 3-5 because it will want to rotate upward when you accellerate.

 

[jmlcolorado]

Okay, let me try to enplane what i have
Note i am referencing Street Rodders Chassis and Suspension handbook.
Figure 1 shows exactly how i have mine setup. If i were to follow the center line of the axle pinion, that line would end up above the trans.

Figure 2 shows how these angles work together.

Now keep in mind that i will experience very little to zero "axle wrap" that a coil or leaf sprung vehicle would see under heavy load as i am utilizing triangulated I beam trailing arms.



Quite honestly, i dont know how i got 5 degrees, but thats what i currently have.

 

[Dirtyrat]

The angles you HAVE will definitely work if they fall in that range, however, I think perhaps you had missed most of the guy's idea to adjust the look for the front of the truck looking tipped up.

You can do the same thing with the angles if the tail shaft is higher (meaning leveling the motor to reduce that nosed-up look) and decreasing the pinion angle. Anyhow, hope you sort it out and get the look and function you are looking for!

 

[jmlcolorado]

The angles you HAVE will definitely work if they fall in that range, however, I think perhaps you had missed most of the guy's idea to adjust the look for the front of the truck looking tipped up.

You can do the same thing with the angles if the tail shaft is higher (meaning leveling the motor to reduce that nosed-up look) and decreasing the pinion angle. Anyhow, hope you sort it out and get the look and function you are looking for!

It's been a long day I must have totally missed the point but now that you mention it, I see where everyone is coming from.

I'm going to try to tip the grill shell forward so the too line matches the body and bed line, then modify the air cleaner to match as well.
If all else fails, I'll modify the rear end and engine to get them to work with the look.

Thanks all And forgive my stubbornness