My 49' Ford Rat Rod build...

[MercuryMac]

I put my booster and master cylinder under the floor. They are small and can be shoehorned in, but not easily. Remember that the unit will be backwards to the original position so the brake line to the rear wheels will come out of the front orifice and the front brake line will come out of the back one.

 

[Ford49Rat]

I put my booster and master cylinder under the floor. They are small and can be shoehorned in, but not easily. Remember that the unit will be backwards to the original position so the brake line to the rear wheels will come out of the front orifice and the front brake line will come out of the back one.

That's cool! I'll have to see if that setup is possible for me.
Thanks for all you're help. I'm sure more questions will arise
but hopefully for the most part I should get it figured out.

 

[05snopro440]

Even if the frame had ABS, you will not now, because it requires a computer which I assume you don't have. There are sensors behind the rotors (I don't remember exact placement) if your frame had ABS.

I don't remember if mine has a proportioning valve incorporated beside the master cylinder or not. I might have a chance to look tonight.

I would really advise against using a different brand master though. The brake feel and performance could possible be off, and your fitting sizes may be different, etc. Not that it won't work, it's just that it could work better, possibly. Since you're just fabbing things up anyways, I wouldn't think finding an S-10 booster and using that instead would be much hassle.

 

[05snopro440]

I had a look at mine last night. There is a proportioning valve and what is probably a residual pressure valve directly below the master/booster. Just hooking up a booster to your brakes doesn't guarantee they'll work right, you might need either an aftermarket proportioning valve and residual pressure valve, or stock ones. I really suggest you go with the S-10 stuff to make a system that works as it was designed.

I'll try to take a pic so I can post it soon.

 

[Ford49Rat]

I had a look at mine last night. There is a proportioning valve and what is probably a residual pressure valve directly below the master/booster. Just hooking up a booster to your brakes doesn't guarantee they'll work right, you might need either an aftermarket proportioning valve and residual pressure valve, or stock ones. I really suggest you go with the S-10 stuff to make a system that works as it was designed.

I'll try to take a pic so I can post it soon.

Thanks for checking that out for me.
I went to a junkyard and saw some proportioning valves that should work.
Maybe you are right, but I don't see how the master/booster would make
a difference between the ranger or the s10. I've got the correct fittings to go
on the current brake lines that go in the master cylinder, so I think it should
work. I'm going to try to get it all hooked up this weekend and see how it
does.

I also went to a big car show a few weekends ago where a guy had a rat rod that he built
on an s10 frame, but used a dodge dakota brake booster and master cylinder and he said
it worked just fine.

 

[05snopro440]

I'm not saying it won't work 'fine', but it could work better.

The reason it would make a difference is because of the size of the pistons in the master. They're sized to work correctly with the size of the pistons in your calipers and drums, so that your pedal pressure and brake pressure is how it's supposed to be.

I just don't understand why you would use an S-10 frame with a complete S-10 brake system, and then use a master that isn't matched to those brakes.

 

[Ford49Rat]

I'm not saying it won't work 'fine', but it could work better.

The reason it would make a difference is because of the size of the pistons in the master. They're sized to work correctly with the size of the pistons in your calipers and drums, so that your pedal pressure and brake pressure is how it's supposed to be.

I just don't understand why you would use an S-10 frame with a complete S-10 brake system, and then use a master that isn't matched to those brakes.

The only reason I went with the ford ranger booster was my buddy has a parts ranger truck that sold me the master cylinder and brake booster and brake pedal assembly off of for $10. Junkyards wanted $60+ so I went with the ranger.

 

[JBailey]

I don't think it will be a problem. The masters should have the same size bore, they are the same size trucks after all. If it will help you out I just bought a 1990 s-one-oh the other day and can post a pic of the brake lines and master so you can get an idea of how it was originally.

 

[Ford49Rat]

I don't think it will be a problem. The masters should have the same size bore, they are the same size trucks after all. If it will help you out I just bought a 1990 s-one-oh the other day and can post a pic of the brake lines and master so you can get an idea of how it was originally.

Thanks JBailey. A picture could be helpful for reference.

 

[JBailey]

Here's a couple pics of the stock brake setup on my s10, they aren't great but should give you an idea lol.

From the driver's side

Untitled by ratrodfanbobcat, on Flickr

From the front


Untitled by ratrodfanbobcat, on Flickr

From the passenger side


Untitled by ratrodfanbobcat, on Flickr

Hope those help a little.

 

[Ford49Rat]

Thanks that does help. The guy I got the ranger brake booster and master
from has the proportional valve on the same truck he is going to give me.
Then I should be set to hook it all up.

 

[Ford49Rat]

Here's an update on where I am after this weekend...

I got the shifter hooked up and functioning correctly. I've still got to weld
the 2'ish foot rod that will be what I'll be putting my new shift knob on.

I also got the brackets for the floor cut and welded in place.
I used bed rails (yes, bed rails as in a bed you sleep on) and it worked perfect.
So far I've only got the passenger side floor cut and put in.

I am still working on my brake booster and master cylinder...I'll be going to
a junkyard this week to try to find the right fittings and a "T" or proportional
valve for it to work.

I've added pictures of what I got accomplished this weekend.

 

[Ford49Rat]

Update

I have run into a problem....

I knew from the beginning I had bought a long wheel base S10 frame...
I did not think much about it, but have finally realized my rat rod is not
going to look too good having such a long bed. The total length of the
rat rod is 15 feet! And the bed alone is 7-8 feet!

I want the nice rat rod look of having a short wheel base and shorter bed.
I have decided to find another frame and swap it over.

My question is, do I need to find a 2 door blazer frame, or would a short
wheelbase s10 be the same? I'm thinking a blazer frame is shorter and
would be different in the back since it doesn't have a bed...Any advice?

 

[Yankee Transplant]

cut your frame to fit ? Ive cut a few frames ... you slide the back section inside the front section and weld it back together , kinda double the frame up.

 

[Ford49Rat]

cut your frame to fit ? Ive cut a few frames ... you slide the back section inside the front section and weld it back together , kinda double the frame up.

We looked at cutting it, but it would need to be cut a good amount...like
4-5 feet. I don't think there is enough "plain" frame to cut that much...
The leaf springs are pretty long and would only be able to cut a small
section out (less than a foot). Am I missing some information that would
let me be able to shorten the frame that much?

 

[Yankee Transplant]

Yep thats a lot to cut away.

 

[05snopro440]

The S-10 frames are one of the easiest to shorten. There is already a slip-joint in the middle where you can easily remove material. You simply cut the weld at the front of the joint, separate the frame and remove material, slip it back together and weld it back up.

What is the wheelbase of your frame now, and what wheelbase are you wanting to get to?

There are 3 wheelbases of S-10, and 2 of Blazer:

S-10 Blazer 2 Door: 100.5" WB
S-10 Blazer 4 Door: 107" WB
S-10 Regular Cab Short Box: 108" WB
S-10 Regular Cab Long Box: 117" WB
S-10 Extended Cab Short Box: 123" WB
S-10 Crew Cab Short Box (2001-2004 only): 123" WB

The 117" WB is right for most regular cab shortbox vintage trucks, though some (like 55-56 dodges) did have a 108" WB. If you're wanting something super short hopefully the list above helps you. If you have a super long bed it sounds like you make have the extended cab short box at the moment.

 

[Ford49Rat]

The S-10 frames are one of the easiest to shorten. There is already a slip-joint in the middle where you can easily remove material. You simply cut the weld at the front of the joint, separate the frame and remove material, slip it back together and weld it back up.

What is the wheelbase of your frame now, and what wheelbase are you wanting to get to?

There are 3 wheelbases of S-10, and 2 of Blazer:

S-10 Blazer 2 Door: 100.5" WB
S-10 Blazer 4 Door: 107" WB
S-10 Regular Cab Short Box: 108" WB
S-10 Regular Cab Long Box: 117" WB
S-10 Extended Cab Short Box: 123" WB
S-10 Crew Cab Short Box (2001-2004 only): 123" WB

The 117" WB is right for most regular cab shortbox vintage trucks, though some (like 55-56 dodges) did have a 108" WB. If you're wanting something super short hopefully the list above helps you. If you have a super long bed it sounds like you make have the extended cab short box at the moment.

Thanks for the dimensions. Mine is the 123'' WB. I have the cab mounted
in the correct place where a cab would normally be mounted. I put a 48'
Ford long bed on it that I was planning on cutting down, and it is a total of 7
feet and some inches long and lined up exactly with the back of the frame.
It is WAY too long. I want the bed to be a total of about 4 feet, not the 7 it
is now. How can I possibly cut the frame 3-4 feet and be where I want?
I could not fine any room on the frame to cut that much off, unless I'm
missing something.
What I would like to do is move the rear end up towards the cab to where the
tires would be closer to the cab and not have such a long bed. But then
again the leaf springs would keep me from cutting the frame I think.
I have attached a picture of the frame I have and one with the cab on it.

 

[05snopro440]

Thanks for the dimensions. Mine is the 123'' WB. I have the cab mounted
in the correct place where a cab would normally be mounted. I put a 48'
Ford long bed on it that I was planning on cutting down, and it is a total of 7
feet and some inches long and lined up exactly with the back of the frame.
It is WAY too long. I want the bed to be a total of about 4 feet, not the 7 it
is now. How can I possibly cut the frame 3-4 feet and be where I want?
I could not fine any room on the frame to cut that much off, unless I'm
missing something.
What I would like to do is move the rear end up towards the cab to where the
tires would be closer to the cab and not have such a long bed. But then
again the leaf springs would keep me from cutting the frame I think.
I have attached a picture of the frame I have and one with the cab on it.

Are you running full fenders? It might look a little silly with a 4 foot bed and full fenders if you are, but that's just my opinion.

Even if you go back to a shorter frame, they're shorter in between the wheels. There's a 23" difference between the shortest and longest wheelbase, that's in between the wheels, of course. If you need to take more than that out this might not be the right platform for you, or you might need to modify more heavily and change the back half drastically.

I marked up your photo as you can see below. The factory seam and "boxed section" are where the frame is attached. Without having a look at mine and only going from memory, you need to cut welds in this section and then cut off as much frame as you need to in order to slide it back together and weld it back up. Keep in mind your fuel and brake lines and emergency brake cables will also change. I've seen guys do some real stupid things when needing to shorten an S-10 frame, when they're very easy to do in reality.

 

[Ford49Rat]

Thanks snopro,

That is a lot of help! I am not running any fenders.
So you are saying to cut the box where the weld is and shorten it however
much I need? 23'' like you said sounds right.
Would this change or make it difficult on mounting the cab back on the frame?
Right now it is mounted right down in the cab mounts that are already on
the frame. I'm guessing there will still be enough room to put the cab back
on the frame even after I cut about 2 feet out of the box?
Plus I will have to get the drive shaft shortened to, right?