Regulation that YOU cannot weld your own chassis??

[1shotkustompinstriping]

Where ever it is that this is now law, this is what it says:

Frame: A motor vehicle must be equipped with a frame. If an existing frame from a recognized manufacturer is not used and a special frame is fabricated, it must be constructed of wall box or continuous section tubing, wall channel, or unitized construction capable of supporting the vehicle, its load, and the torque produced by the power source under all conditions of operation. All welding on the frame must be completed by a certified welder and the structural strength of the frame must be certified by an engineer as meeting the applicable standards set under 49 CFR 571 Parts 201, 214, 216, and 220 through 224, and the SAE Standards.

Where is this law??
Now on the rules of the materials that have to be used, I can kind of see the point. However on the "All welding on the frame must be completed by a certified welder and the structural strength of the frame must be certified by an engineer" part I think is just another way for the government to make more money.

1shot

 

[Bonehead]

Where did this information come from?
It is a good thing I am certified. A good friend of mine is an engineer too. But what does driving a train have to do with it?

 

[utilityart]

One problem with that... unibody. Most modern cars are not built on a frame and a VW bug never has been.

 

[donsrods]

This came from the HAMB. Someone said their Dad took his rod to have it licensed or inspected and they asked if he welded the frame. He said he did and then they asked if he was a certified welder, and he said no. They turned him down saying any welding had to be done by a certified welder and then approved by a structural engineer. This was in the State of Washington.

I've been saying for a long time, our days as hot rodders are numbered. People think it can't happen............it can.

Don

 

[1shotkustompinstriping]

I found it on the OSR board, there was confusion on wher eit was law. I dont think they will get it to stick, permanently.

1shot

 

[donsrods]

It is already a law in Washington. Not just a proposal, but an actual law:



WAC 204-10-022>>
8) Frame: A motor vehicle must be equipped with a frame. If an existing frame from a recognized manufacturer is not used and a special frame is fabricated, it must be constructed of wall box or continuous section tubing, wall channel, or unitized construction capable of supporting the vehicle, its load, and the torque produced by the power source under all conditions of operation. All welding on the frame must be completed by a certified welder and the structural strength of the frame must be certified by an engineer as meeting the applicable standards set under 49 CFR 571 Parts 201, 214, 216, and 220 through 224, and the SAE Standards.


Don

 

[Sniper]

I would have liked to be the fly on the wall in both cases. 1 When the law was debated and passed, and what triggered it. (Although I can pretty well guess.) And 2, what was presented to the inspectors to have them question the welds. (But as Don points out, it is a working law, and may be required by the inspector to ask the question.) It would also be interesting to know how long this has been on the books. Is it one of those laws that get ignored most of the time until it's convenent to pull it out, and be used at someone's discretion. Lots of things going on in the back ground here. Sniper

 

[rustybeercan]

This came from the HAMB. Someone said their Dad took his rod to have it licensed or inspected and they asked if he welded the frame. He said he did and then they asked if he was a certified welder, and he said no. They turned him down saying any welding had to be done by a certified welder and then approved by a structural engineer. This was in the State of Washington.

Yes sir Mr inspector, this frame was welded by a certified welder thank you very much. This law was probably sponsored by Morrison frames!

Beercan

 

[35Mastr]

At least it will keep people from welding them with under powered welders and brazing rod.

 

[35Mastr]

Yes sir Mr inspector, this frame was welded by a certified welder thank you very much. This law was probably sponsored by Morrison frames!

Beercan

Unless you had documentation in hand I would not insert foot in mouth.

 

[bb36577]

if you see some of the garbage that some shade tree mechanic produce, it is just a law to promote a safe motor vehicle. If a vehicle comes about in travel it effect those on the highway around them.

now that doesnt mean he had to tell. 'It had a frame when I bought it"

 

[ANNAMEL]

well I think its all a bunch of BS. Go to another state get it titled and bring it home. Did that with emissions test before. most of theese frames are safer than some of the drivers on the roads at any time of day. Do not normally post negative responses. I apologize.

 

[gassersgarage]

A buddy of mine got stopped by the Highway Patrol. He was cited for "Unsafe Vehicle" because he welded his own front clip and wasn't certified.

 

[Hombre]

Certified Welder, Now just what in the world is that supposed to mean??

What kind of certification?
On what type of Material?
In what welding position?
To what standared?
To meet what code?

And this list goes on and on. Welding certifications are without a doubt the most misunderstood thing in the construction world, and that is the world were a welding certification is required ---- Construction----

In the above questions a welder can be certified in one matereal--- And any welder must have a certificate for each different type of welding he does. And not be certified in another material. He can be certified in one position ie. 2F which is T-Joint and the same welder is "NOT" certified to weld in the overhead position or 4G or Vertical which is 3G.

Welding certificates are a bag of worms, and are based mostly on building codes for Building construction the Aero Space Industry and for Pipe fitting and the Petroleum Industry. And even with in these disciplines the code itself can specify the Certification.

Welding Certification also must be renewed usually every 6 months, sometimes this only means you send a check to the AWS and they send you a new card.

Now with that said, If you want to be Certified and that means you have a piece of paper that says that. You can find the closest AWS certification School or Certification facilty nearest you, go in and tell them you want a certificate to weld in the T-Joint or 2F position. They will schedule you a test usually a test requires you to weld in front of the inspector, he will visually inspect your weld and then an X-Ray or Distruction test will be performed on the fillet. Pass and you will be a certified welder in the 2 F or the most simply position, but you will be a certified welder with the paper work to prove it. The test will cost you somewhere between $165.00 to $300.00.

So just how much is a little piece of mind worth?? One very interesting fact about welding certifications, it is thought by most in the welding industry that at a minimum 80 to 90% of the welders in the Untited States are in fact either "NOT" certified or that there certification has lapsed.

RS

 

[StoneCold65]

At least it will keep people from welding them with under powered welders and brazing rod.

Yeah or that flux core mig they just bought at Harbor Freight

 

[Bonehead]

I agree about the certification... what state, or organization? Mine is long expired, but my state certification was for insurance puposes, and was basic welding, stick.
I also certified for Exxon on Pipe, also stick, but what does that have to do with welding a frame? I supose if it looks professional, maybe it would not be questioned.

 

[Willowbilly3]

I think it might be a legitimate concern, not just big brother trying to mess up our hobby. Yes most of us are capable of welding up a safe frame but we have all seen some of the junk out there too. At what price an innocent life?
And my bet is that a lot of us that think we can weld would be sadly embarrassed if they ever x-rayed some of our welds.
I also agree on defining "certified". I had a guy come to work with me once that had gone to welding school and was "certified". About all he knew was that it made a bright flash. After we repaired a 641 Cat scraper with a broken gooseneck, got all the fish plates in ect., he told me he learned more from me on that job than they ever taught him at welding school. And I ain't all that bright either. I have worked around certified pipe welders that knew their stuff but couldn't weld a cracked frame right if their life depended on it.

 

[moronthethrottle]

I'm with you guys on the welding certification. Good to prevent unsafe junk from hitting the roads and then an innocent bystander, but they leave a lot of gray area in there.

The engineer stamp is intriguing. I would have to send the codes listed to one of my structural engineer buddies in Alabama and South Carolina. They always commented on the radial stacker conveyors that we built that there is no specific code written for mobile units.

I have a hard time seeing a good PE stamp an automobile. If that car is in a wreck and someone is hurt, they could be held liable and would have to pay and probably lose their license. A certified stamp for anything typically runs around $1000 + $ for time spent. Every PE I've worked with gets cranky when they have to submit their calculations.

 

[Bonehead]

So I am guessing you would have to modify an original frame to get around it. Box a frame, bob a frame, that sort of thing.

 

[21tat]

Sounds like it would be a hard law to enforce.