Bamamav
Well-known member
Just passing on good info from a good source!
RPU, bodywork underway.
- Thread starter donsrods
- Start date
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Just passing on good info from a good source!
donsrods
Well-known member
Ok, finally some progress ! I installed the new carb today and right out of the box it ran way better. Not perfect yet, but probably 95% better, just a very slight bog off the line but then it pulls hard and revs like it should.
So, then I removed the base off of the new carb and installed the one from my old carb because I need that base because it has the extended shaft to make my end two carbs work. Nothing changed, it still ran much better, so my old base plate is ok.
Then I regapped the plugs to 35 thousandths instead of the 45 they were at, and all of them were black with carbon, and they only have a little running time on them, so this thing has been running rich. After doing that, and cleaning them a little, it still ran well.
Finally, I decided to experiment, so I removed the block off plate I had put under the first end carb and I also unplugged the fuel line and reinstalled that carb. When I fired it up the car ran like crap ! So, I reversed the process, put the block off plate back in place, and blocked the fuel line to that carb, and immediately it ran good again.
So, I am done playing around with these carbs. I came home and ordered two more rebuilt carbs from Rock Auto because I am so impressed with the first one I got from them. It has cost me some money, but I am tired of having something that should be so simple give me fits.
When the two carbs come I will install the special tripower bases on them and install them, and hopefully this thing will continue to run well.
Golf is looking better all the time !
So, then I removed the base off of the new carb and installed the one from my old carb because I need that base because it has the extended shaft to make my end two carbs work. Nothing changed, it still ran much better, so my old base plate is ok.
Then I regapped the plugs to 35 thousandths instead of the 45 they were at, and all of them were black with carbon, and they only have a little running time on them, so this thing has been running rich. After doing that, and cleaning them a little, it still ran well.
Finally, I decided to experiment, so I removed the block off plate I had put under the first end carb and I also unplugged the fuel line and reinstalled that carb. When I fired it up the car ran like crap ! So, I reversed the process, put the block off plate back in place, and blocked the fuel line to that carb, and immediately it ran good again.
So, I am done playing around with these carbs. I came home and ordered two more rebuilt carbs from Rock Auto because I am so impressed with the first one I got from them. It has cost me some money, but I am tired of having something that should be so simple give me fits.
When the two carbs come I will install the special tripower bases on them and install them, and hopefully this thing will continue to run well.
Golf is looking better all the time !
soltz
The Rat Captain
You'll Get It
You have a lot of patients, by now I would fixed with my 5# hammer
You have a lot of patients, by now I would fixed with my 5# hammer
Torchie
Well-known member
Torchie
donsrods
Well-known member
You have a lot of patients, by now I would fixed with my 5# hammer
Believe me, I have thought of the hammer a few times ! lol
donsrods
Well-known member
I just got off the phone with Summit Racing and ordered a new Pertronix Flame Thrower distributor and matching coil . I have the same one in my 27 and it has been great.
The distributor currently in my rpu is one that I bought at Turkey Run from one of the vendors there, it is a knock off cheaper distributor and I have always had my concerns about it, especially since I can turn it anywhere and it still runs pretty much the same.
This whole thing is very puzzling, small block Chevies are about as simple as you can get, and yet this thing has been driving me nuts. In my 23 I had the same motor that I pulled out of a boat, I rebuilt it and put two Rochester two barrels on it that went on a Vintage Speed intake manifold, and the thing ran right out of the box like a clock.
So now every part on this motor will be brand new and if it still doesn't run right I may swap over (temporarily) to a four barrel setup I have sitting on another engine in the shop. I should have the new carbs and distributor in a couple of days, so I will know soon what is what.
The distributor currently in my rpu is one that I bought at Turkey Run from one of the vendors there, it is a knock off cheaper distributor and I have always had my concerns about it, especially since I can turn it anywhere and it still runs pretty much the same.
This whole thing is very puzzling, small block Chevies are about as simple as you can get, and yet this thing has been driving me nuts. In my 23 I had the same motor that I pulled out of a boat, I rebuilt it and put two Rochester two barrels on it that went on a Vintage Speed intake manifold, and the thing ran right out of the box like a clock.
So now every part on this motor will be brand new and if it still doesn't run right I may swap over (temporarily) to a four barrel setup I have sitting on another engine in the shop. I should have the new carbs and distributor in a couple of days, so I will know soon what is what.
Torchie
Well-known member
What you are doing is what I feel many Techs lack theses days.(Without a computer).
The ability to diagnose a problem.
Back when I was in HS the auto shop class used to participate in a contest that ,I believe, Mopar put on.
One of the challenges was to be able to diagnose and get started a engine that had been disabled.
I learned a lot from those events which continue to serve me well today.
Keep at it. You will get right.
Torchie
[P[P[P[P
The ability to diagnose a problem.
Back when I was in HS the auto shop class used to participate in a contest that ,I believe, Mopar put on.
One of the challenges was to be able to diagnose and get started a engine that had been disabled.
I learned a lot from those events which continue to serve me well today.
Keep at it. You will get right.
Torchie
[P[P[P[P
donsrods
Well-known member
Yep, Torchie, my skill level is just "Keep throwing new parts at it until it is fixed". Sooner or later you find the bad one. lol
smallfoot
He's rockin' the "Nuttin Special"!
I also remember that deal! That and being monetarily challenged helped teach me some stuff...
Old Iron
Well-known member
My dad was a mechanic his whole life and as close to a perfectionist as I've ever seen. I had to diagnose what was wrong with a vehicle before I bought the part to fix it because money was never abundant.
Up until the electronic age, this has served me well now, ya have to have a scanner to be able to see what the computer has stored in it as a cause. Ya have to be able to decide what part is causing the other part/parts to malfunction too
Up until the electronic age, this has served me well now, ya have to have a scanner to be able to see what the computer has stored in it as a cause. Ya have to be able to decide what part is causing the other part/parts to malfunction too
My dad was a mechanic his whole life and as close to a perfectionist as I've ever seen. I had to diagnose what was wrong with a vehicle before I bought the part to fix it because money was never abundant.
Up until the electronic age, this has served me well now, ya have to have a scanner to be able to see what the computer has stored in it as a cause. Ya have to be able to decide what part is causing the other part/parts to malfunction too
I hate replacing parts on a guess. Things have become so technical it is intimidating to work on the new stuff and too expensive to take to the dealer. Sometimes it's cheaper to buy the most likely part as a test.
Torchie
Well-known member
That’s for sure kenny.
Now my diagnostic skills boil down to one answer that is always the same no matter the problem. “ It’s a control module. “
Torchie
donsrods
Well-known member
Well guys, I think today I found my problem ! My new carbs came in and I got the Speedway bases installed on them to convert them to a tripower setup. I got everything converted over and got them installed. When I started the car up, it ran like crap !
So, I dug into the ignition system and replaced all the spark plug wires with a set I had laying around, it made no difference. My new distributor and coil are coming tomorrow, as well as new spark plugs, so I figured I would wait until then to see what those parts do.
However, I started the car up and it sat there idling very roughly, sounding like a fuel dragster, the idle was really erratic. So, I took my hand and put it over the top of the center carb to act as a choke, and immediately the car started idling like a brand new car !!!!!!!!!!!!!!! When I took my hand off it began to run rough again, and when I put my hand back over the carb it smoothed right out !
So, I have a MAJOR vacuum leak somewhere in the system. I shot some carb cleaner around the area where the intake bolts to the heads, and it picked right up and idled much better , so my leak seems to be in the gaskets between the heads and the intake.
Tomorrow I am going to remove the entire intake setup, buy a set of good Fel Pro intake gaskets and some sealant for the ends of the intake, clean it all up, and remount it and torque it down. I am not sure what has happened here, the heads are new, and the intake is new, so why it is leaking is a mystery.
But this is (hopefully) an easy fix and I can get it done in a few hours time. This was the last thing I would have expected to find, but it sure seems like the smoking gun.
So, I dug into the ignition system and replaced all the spark plug wires with a set I had laying around, it made no difference. My new distributor and coil are coming tomorrow, as well as new spark plugs, so I figured I would wait until then to see what those parts do.
However, I started the car up and it sat there idling very roughly, sounding like a fuel dragster, the idle was really erratic. So, I took my hand and put it over the top of the center carb to act as a choke, and immediately the car started idling like a brand new car !!!!!!!!!!!!!!! When I took my hand off it began to run rough again, and when I put my hand back over the carb it smoothed right out !
So, I have a MAJOR vacuum leak somewhere in the system. I shot some carb cleaner around the area where the intake bolts to the heads, and it picked right up and idled much better , so my leak seems to be in the gaskets between the heads and the intake.
Tomorrow I am going to remove the entire intake setup, buy a set of good Fel Pro intake gaskets and some sealant for the ends of the intake, clean it all up, and remount it and torque it down. I am not sure what has happened here, the heads are new, and the intake is new, so why it is leaking is a mystery.
But this is (hopefully) an easy fix and I can get it done in a few hours time. This was the last thing I would have expected to find, but it sure seems like the smoking gun.
BillM
Well-known member
It sounds like you are getting close Don. Good luck, I'm looking forward to hearing what you find.
Before you take the intake off try to pin point the leak a little better by using the little red tube on the carb cleaner nozzle. this way you will know where to look for a problem. When you take the intake off go slow so as to not rip the gaskets. with any luck you can see a bad spot in the gasket or sealer at the ends. Also check for cracks and porosity on the intake, heads and front cover if the intake seals to it. It shouldn't leak at the front or rear as this is a seal for oil but porosity or cracks could possibly create a path for vacuum. Check sealing surfaces with a straight edge to check that they were machined properly. Check intake ports with the gasket and head ports against the gasket to make sure they match. Hope this helps. Good luck. We want to see this thing running.[P[P
Old Iron
Well-known member
The same thing happened to a buddy of mine just two weeks ago. When he put the intake on either he got the wrong one or he let it slip down too far and it leaked at the top mating surface of the heads to intake.
donsrods
Well-known member
Thanks for all the tips guys. This thing should be a no brainer, new engine, new intake. But it was so long ago that I put the intake on that I am not sure what gaskets I used or how I did it.
My son Don says that if I used the Edelbrock gaskets that came with the intake, he hates them and has had bad luck with them before. I probably did, but I am going to buy a set of FelPro gaskets today and check everything before they go on.
The weird part is, this is no little vacuum leak, it is a major leak. When I cupped my entire hand over the top of the middle carb and blocked off most of the air going in, it ran way better. Also, when Dan was spraying carb cleaner around the intake mounting surface last night he saw bubbling coming from around the gasket.
By tonight I should know more. My distributor and coil should show up today, so perfect time to get those installed too.
My son Don says that if I used the Edelbrock gaskets that came with the intake, he hates them and has had bad luck with them before. I probably did, but I am going to buy a set of FelPro gaskets today and check everything before they go on.
The weird part is, this is no little vacuum leak, it is a major leak. When I cupped my entire hand over the top of the middle carb and blocked off most of the air going in, it ran way better. Also, when Dan was spraying carb cleaner around the intake mounting surface last night he saw bubbling coming from around the gasket.
By tonight I should know more. My distributor and coil should show up today, so perfect time to get those installed too.
bruno
Crusty Rusty Old Rat Rodder!
Will be waiting for an update!!!!
smallfoot
He's rockin' the "Nuttin Special"!
I found out long ago that if you don't have control modules, they can't be the problem. Same goes for sensors on those computer controlled machines. Going on 6 years with the nuttin special and the only things I replace regularly are gas and oil...
donsrods
Well-known member
All of my parts came in on Friday and Saturday, and I got the top end of the engine stripped down. When I pulled the intake, it was glued down really well, and the gasket surfaces showed no real smoking gun as to where it might have been leaking. However, the gaskets were as hard as a rock, probably because I installed them years ago and they have been sitting, drying out.
I cleaned up the heads and the intake mounting surfaces about 3 times, starting with a wire wheel and ending up with lacquer thinner on a cloth. I wanted them to be spotless. I ran a straightedge over both and they are flat as can be, and they should be, both the engine and intake are brand new. I then put the intake onto the engine with no gaskets and ran a feeler gauge all around the mating surface. A .003 feeler gauge would hardly go in there, so the surfaces are very close to each other.
Then I had to make a decision on the gaskets. I ran out and bought a set of FelPros like what I had on there, and then I did a little research and on line they say a high performance set of FelPros do a better job on an aluminum intake, so I drove to a store a half hour away that was SUPPOSED to have a set in stock, but they didn't. So, while there I picked up a set of Mr Gasket intake gaskets just to take a look at.
When I got back to the shop I wrestled with which ones to use, flipping back and forth between the two brands. So, I came home and slept on it, and just now I ordered the high performance ones from Summit and should have those on Tuesday. After all I have been through, I do not want to screw this thing up again and have to pull the intake off again !
While I was doing all of that, Dan was working hard on the bed on Friday and Saturday, he is really made great progress. He is about 95% done, only a few small things to do before we can get it powder coated and painted.
Here are a couple of pictures, the blue gaskets are the FelPros and the gray are the Mr Gaskets......neither of which I will be using. As you can see in the pictures of the engine, I have gotten the heads as clean as possible.
I cleaned up the heads and the intake mounting surfaces about 3 times, starting with a wire wheel and ending up with lacquer thinner on a cloth. I wanted them to be spotless. I ran a straightedge over both and they are flat as can be, and they should be, both the engine and intake are brand new. I then put the intake onto the engine with no gaskets and ran a feeler gauge all around the mating surface. A .003 feeler gauge would hardly go in there, so the surfaces are very close to each other.
Then I had to make a decision on the gaskets. I ran out and bought a set of FelPros like what I had on there, and then I did a little research and on line they say a high performance set of FelPros do a better job on an aluminum intake, so I drove to a store a half hour away that was SUPPOSED to have a set in stock, but they didn't. So, while there I picked up a set of Mr Gasket intake gaskets just to take a look at.
When I got back to the shop I wrestled with which ones to use, flipping back and forth between the two brands. So, I came home and slept on it, and just now I ordered the high performance ones from Summit and should have those on Tuesday. After all I have been through, I do not want to screw this thing up again and have to pull the intake off again !
While I was doing all of that, Dan was working hard on the bed on Friday and Saturday, he is really made great progress. He is about 95% done, only a few small things to do before we can get it powder coated and painted.
Here are a couple of pictures, the blue gaskets are the FelPros and the gray are the Mr Gaskets......neither of which I will be using. As you can see in the pictures of the engine, I have gotten the heads as clean as possible.
