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Well-known member
You guys are not making me feel comfortable about the tunnel ram I have sitting on the shelf. 
RPU, bodywork underway.
- Thread starter donsrods
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Torchie
Well-known member
Well. Now we all know why the "Duece Coupe" in American Graffiti always sounded like it ran like crap.
Hang in the Don and Mac.
Torchie
Hang in the Don and Mac.
Torchie
donsrods
Well-known member
Thanks guys for all the input. Today was tear down day. I got all the parts removed including the distributor, carbs, and intake, after I drained the cooling system (again). When I pulled off the brand new intake gaskets that I just installed a few days ago, they really looked strange, There was oil tracking on the entire underside and it went clear up into the intake and water ports,
I called Jegs, who I bought this motor from in 2015, and explained that I was not looking for a new motor after all these years, but I was just looking for some suggestions of what I might have going on. The guy there was very helpful, and he told me , when he pulled up the records of this sale, that what I got was a brand new, not rebuilt, Goodwrench engine with two bolt mains and a two piece rear seal. So he said it was unlikely that the heads were a mismatch for the intake.
I told him I was going to install a brand new four barrel intake and carb just to rule out any issues with the tripower intake. He said that was a good idea as it should run like a stocker when I do that.
So, I got everything cleaned up and ready for when the new intake comes next week I have not decided yet if I will put the good, but slightly used, Edelbrock carb on it first, that I got from Dan's car when he went to 500 cfms instead of this 600 cfm, or, if I will simply put the rebuilt Holley 650 double pumper on and see how that works.
Here are some pictures of the intake side and head side of both gaskets that I removed today. That pattern of oil soaking up the gaskets looks odd to me. And here is a picture of the two carbs I can use when the manifold comes.
I called Jegs, who I bought this motor from in 2015, and explained that I was not looking for a new motor after all these years, but I was just looking for some suggestions of what I might have going on. The guy there was very helpful, and he told me , when he pulled up the records of this sale, that what I got was a brand new, not rebuilt, Goodwrench engine with two bolt mains and a two piece rear seal. So he said it was unlikely that the heads were a mismatch for the intake.
I told him I was going to install a brand new four barrel intake and carb just to rule out any issues with the tripower intake. He said that was a good idea as it should run like a stocker when I do that.
So, I got everything cleaned up and ready for when the new intake comes next week I have not decided yet if I will put the good, but slightly used, Edelbrock carb on it first, that I got from Dan's car when he went to 500 cfms instead of this 600 cfm, or, if I will simply put the rebuilt Holley 650 double pumper on and see how that works.
Here are some pictures of the intake side and head side of both gaskets that I removed today. That pattern of oil soaking up the gaskets looks odd to me. And here is a picture of the two carbs I can use when the manifold comes.
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donsrods
Well-known member
zzrodder
It ain't grey hair, it's chrome!
There will normally be oil getting on the part of the gaskets not on the clamping surfaces and once you pull them off, it will wick onto the material pretty quickly. The gasket you used look like good ones, I personally also use a thin smear of Permatex Ultra Black silicone anyways around all the ports, water passages and a dab on the bolts too, I don't like re-doing stuff.
I was hoping for some closeup pics of the tripower before you pulled it but I understand your frustration and admire your restraint for not taking a sledgehammer to it once you had it off [cl
BTW, was the tripower manifold new? Just trying to figure out the mystery air leak...[S
I was hoping for some closeup pics of the tripower before you pulled it but I understand your frustration and admire your restraint for not taking a sledgehammer to it once you had it off [cl
BTW, was the tripower manifold new? Just trying to figure out the mystery air leak...[S
donsrods
Well-known member
Thanks for the suggestions, ZZ. Yep, the tripower intake is brand new out of the box. When I laid it bare on the heads with no gaskets to check the fit, a .003 feeler gauge would just slide under it, so it seems like the heads and intake match.
You are probably right about that oil just soaking up into the gaskets. I still have to confirm if FelPro advises putting the intake gaskets with the bead of sealant toward the heads of toward the intake. I am seeing conflicting info on the internet, and I have always put the printing up, toward the intake, but the guy at Jegs said the opposite.
Last night another issue dawned on me. My tripower intake has the oil fill tube/crankcase breather on it, but the new intake I am getting does not. So I need to pull off my Corvette valve covers that have no breathers and buy a set of valve covers that do have breathers on them. Later on, when I reinstall the tripower intake for the final time, I can reuse the Corvette covers.
It just keeps getting more fun every day !!!!!!!!
You are probably right about that oil just soaking up into the gaskets. I still have to confirm if FelPro advises putting the intake gaskets with the bead of sealant toward the heads of toward the intake. I am seeing conflicting info on the internet, and I have always put the printing up, toward the intake, but the guy at Jegs said the opposite.
Last night another issue dawned on me. My tripower intake has the oil fill tube/crankcase breather on it, but the new intake I am getting does not. So I need to pull off my Corvette valve covers that have no breathers and buy a set of valve covers that do have breathers on them. Later on, when I reinstall the tripower intake for the final time, I can reuse the Corvette covers.
It just keeps getting more fun every day !!!!!!!!
bruno
Crusty Rusty Old Rat Rodder!
Seems like this engine is turning into a money pit Don. Hope your new intake will solve the problem. Sometimes this hobby can really become a pain in the arse.
Hope your new intake will solve the problem. Sometimes this hobby can really become a pain in the arse.
donsrods
Well-known member
Seems like this engine is turning into a money pit Don.
Bruno, you are exactly right. I have never had a brand new crate engine, I always just built a motor from a used engine, and NEVER had had so many issues in my life.
This thing just keeps sucking up more and more money every day.
bob w
Still crazy after all these years!
When my friend Leo passed away 5-6 years ago I found myself in possession of a new 3-2intake manifold and carbs he modified with the same Speedway kits you used. All the stuff sat in the attic of the garage for a few years. I asked at the Thursday night gathering at Gruber's if anyone was interested the set up. The first person that showed an interest got the whole shebang for free. Based on your experience, Don, it looks like I did the smart thing.
donsrods
Well-known member
Haha, Bob, if this intake wasn't a gift from my sons, I would probably do the same thing you did. The setup looks cool, but I am not sure what you need to do to make it run right.
I mentioned in an earlier post that it dawned on my that when I pulled off the tripower intake that my new intake did not have a provision to put oil into the motor or let the crankcase breathe. So I just ordered a nice set of Transdapt finned aluminum covers and some push in breathers from Summit. This should solve the problem.
All the parts should be here mid week, so I should hopefully have this thing running by Friday.
I mentioned in an earlier post that it dawned on my that when I pulled off the tripower intake that my new intake did not have a provision to put oil into the motor or let the crankcase breathe. So I just ordered a nice set of Transdapt finned aluminum covers and some push in breathers from Summit. This should solve the problem.
All the parts should be here mid week, so I should hopefully have this thing running by Friday.
donsrods
Well-known member
I just got off the phone with the tech guy at FelPro, he said to install the gaskets with the bead of silicone toward the intake side, like I had done.
I also told him about the oil wicking I am seeing where there is oil staining on only the underside of the gaskets. He said it sounds like a mismatch of angles between the intake and heads and that a machine shop would have to mill the intake to match the heads. What confuses me with that is my engine and intake are brand new, so I would think both would be spot on.
What I am going to do first is install the new 4 barrel intake on Wednesday when it comes, with the new gaskets that are also coming, and try starting it with the 4 barrel and see what it does.
In the interim, I am going to call Edelbrock and run this by them to see if they have any more suggestions. There is evidently something that is making this problem happen, and I just need to keep digging.
I also told him about the oil wicking I am seeing where there is oil staining on only the underside of the gaskets. He said it sounds like a mismatch of angles between the intake and heads and that a machine shop would have to mill the intake to match the heads. What confuses me with that is my engine and intake are brand new, so I would think both would be spot on.
What I am going to do first is install the new 4 barrel intake on Wednesday when it comes, with the new gaskets that are also coming, and try starting it with the 4 barrel and see what it does.
In the interim, I am going to call Edelbrock and run this by them to see if they have any more suggestions. There is evidently something that is making this problem happen, and I just need to keep digging.
donsrods
Well-known member
Sorry to keep posting all this info, but I figure, if someone else ever has a similar problem it might save them some time.
Ok, I just called Edelbrock and he said he feels the 1205s3 gaskets I used were not the best choice. He says they do not fit the ports as well as FelPro 1256 gaskets (which I also ordered and have). So, when the intake comes on Wednesday, I will install it with those gaskets and see what is what. He also confirmed to install the gaskets with the bead around the ports facing the intake.
To be continued.................................. lol
Ok, I just called Edelbrock and he said he feels the 1205s3 gaskets I used were not the best choice. He says they do not fit the ports as well as FelPro 1256 gaskets (which I also ordered and have). So, when the intake comes on Wednesday, I will install it with those gaskets and see what is what. He also confirmed to install the gaskets with the bead around the ports facing the intake.
To be continued.................................. lol
MercuryMac
Builder Junky!
Don, I'm glad you're giving out all this information, as I'm going through the same stressful time with three deuces.
Maybe brand new, aftermarket intake manifolds are not always planed perfectly to mate to their engines.
Good luck with the new system.
Maybe brand new, aftermarket intake manifolds are not always planed perfectly to mate to their engines.
Good luck with the new system.
Dr Crankenstein
Rocket Surgeon
Just spit-balling... could this be your problem? [S
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donsrods
Well-known member
Thanks, Mac.
Yep, Dr C, that Mexico part did have me wondering too. But my son Don has a suburban that he uses to haul his boat and other things, and it has a GM crate motor in it with about 200,000 miles on it, and it still runs like a clock. So you never know.
Tonight Dan worked on more welding and grinding on the bed, and I worked on more prep for when the parts arrive on Wednesday. My son Don is going to come over after work on Wednesday, he is the mechanical guy in the family, so I want him to be with me when I put the intake back on and all the other stuff.
I also took some numbers off of my Holley carb, and found out it is not a 650, but actually a 750, which makes sense since it came with a pretty stout 355 drag car I bought some years ago. It might be a bit much for this mild 350, but I will try it and see what it does.
I spent more time tonight making sure the heads were spotless and I used a bottoming tap on every bolt hole to make sure I get a good torque reading when I install the intake. I can not see anything else I need to do to make sure it fits and seals right. I even took an angle finder and took a reading off of the heads and then on the intake, and they were both identical, so the intake should sit flat on the heads .
I should know better after Wednesday night.
Yep, Dr C, that Mexico part did have me wondering too. But my son Don has a suburban that he uses to haul his boat and other things, and it has a GM crate motor in it with about 200,000 miles on it, and it still runs like a clock. So you never know.
Tonight Dan worked on more welding and grinding on the bed, and I worked on more prep for when the parts arrive on Wednesday. My son Don is going to come over after work on Wednesday, he is the mechanical guy in the family, so I want him to be with me when I put the intake back on and all the other stuff.
I also took some numbers off of my Holley carb, and found out it is not a 650, but actually a 750, which makes sense since it came with a pretty stout 355 drag car I bought some years ago. It might be a bit much for this mild 350, but I will try it and see what it does.
I spent more time tonight making sure the heads were spotless and I used a bottoming tap on every bolt hole to make sure I get a good torque reading when I install the intake. I can not see anything else I need to do to make sure it fits and seals right. I even took an angle finder and took a reading off of the heads and then on the intake, and they were both identical, so the intake should sit flat on the heads .
I should know better after Wednesday night.
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DozerII
Well-known member
Man this is fighting you all the way, hope the new set up cures it.
Old Iron
Well-known member
Fingers crossed
donsrods
Well-known member
Thanks guys, I really think this has to fix the problem. A single four barrel is so easy compared to trying to set up these multi carb setups.
I just got the notification that the new intake is on the truck for delivery today, so tonight I will CAREFULLY install it and then put the rest of the parts on tomorrow when they show up.
I am going to have a Priest come by and sprinkle some Holy Water on this thing to chase away any demons hanging out there.
I just got the notification that the new intake is on the truck for delivery today, so tonight I will CAREFULLY install it and then put the rest of the parts on tomorrow when they show up.
I am going to have a Priest come by and sprinkle some Holy Water on this thing to chase away any demons hanging out there.
Torchie
Well-known member
My Mom had that done to me when I was born, Don. It didn't really help.
Good Hunting on the engine.
[cl [cl [cl
Torchie
donsrods
Well-known member
Today my intake showed up so I went to the shop to install it. I REALLY took my time putting it on, and I torqued it down in 5 steps of 5 pounds each, just to be sure I did it right. Then I installed the distributor, and carb, and hooked up the radiator hose.
The only thing left to do tomorrow is to install the valve covers when they come, and also install the new throttle cable setup. It should be ready to fire up after all of that is done. I temporarily installed the vette valve covers just to keep any dirt out and will replace them with the new ones tomorrow.
When I was done with all of that I took a look at something else that I had noticed. When I set the toe in I somehow got it off by a half inch. It should have had 1/8 inch toe in to start, and it was actually at a half inch. So, I corrected that too and will see how it steers once I get the engine running again.
My plan is to box up everything related to the tripower setup, including the valve covers and throttle linkage that fits it, and somewhere down the road I will get it back out and see if I can figure out why it is running so bad. My guess is that the center carb is really messed up, so I will replace that one when the time comes. I think I will heal a little financially for a while though.
Here are some pictures from tonight. I miss multiple carbs, but if this thing finally runs right I think I will get over that for awhile.
The only thing left to do tomorrow is to install the valve covers when they come, and also install the new throttle cable setup. It should be ready to fire up after all of that is done. I temporarily installed the vette valve covers just to keep any dirt out and will replace them with the new ones tomorrow.
When I was done with all of that I took a look at something else that I had noticed. When I set the toe in I somehow got it off by a half inch. It should have had 1/8 inch toe in to start, and it was actually at a half inch. So, I corrected that too and will see how it steers once I get the engine running again.
My plan is to box up everything related to the tripower setup, including the valve covers and throttle linkage that fits it, and somewhere down the road I will get it back out and see if I can figure out why it is running so bad. My guess is that the center carb is really messed up, so I will replace that one when the time comes. I think I will heal a little financially for a while though.
Here are some pictures from tonight. I miss multiple carbs, but if this thing finally runs right I think I will get over that for awhile.
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