S10 Frame under Model A Sedan

[tomtbone]

I am building a Model A Tudor Sedan.
Which S10 wheel base works best?
I am using the Main cab only. In other words, DELETE fenders running boards and hood.

Thank you for your help!
Tom.

 

[Blue Eyed Devil]

NONE.

Please stop now...

 

[bob w]

It'll be ugly.

 

[tomtbone]

Just looking for the answer to the question.
Thank you.

 

[05snopro440]

There are enough options for parts that will work under a Model A, I'm a huge advocate for S10 frame swaps in the right applications but this is one case where you really shouldn't use it. It will never look right.

A Model A has a 103.5" wheelbase as stock. A 2 Door S-10 blazer has a 100.5" wheelbase, and a 4 door S-10 blazer has a 107" wheelbase. These are the closest you'll get. As for which one will work best? Neither. Do it right and use a frame that will actually fit and look good under it. You can literally bolt together the parts to do it right, don't cobble it.

 

[26Troadster]

reg cab s10 short bed is 109" if i remember right. like the others said not a good choice.

 

[tomtbone]

Here is what I know.
108.3 in (2,751 mm) (reg. cab short bed)
117.9 in (2,995 mm) (reg. cab long bed)
122.9 in (3,122 mm) (ext. cab short bed)
Please don't pre-judge I just looking to see if someone who has done this on the Forum. I have seen examples of the result which is similar to my expectations.
Wheel base on stock S10 maybe misleading when it comes to the firewall placement. and engine placement, So The 108.3 regular cab short bed could be to short?
If I can avoid a frame cut to shorten that would be best. If I have to shorten that's OK too.
Thank you.

 

[Blue Eyed Devil]

 

[Toad]

Just looking for the answer to the question.
Thank you.

Yes, people have tried that combo. S10 frames work well on trucks because you don't have to worry about the wheels matching up with the wheel wells so much. But that is a big problem with coupes and sedans. My friend tried it with his grandfather's old Dodge coupe and found it wouldn't work. The responses you gotten are from experienced guys that are offering good advice. To make it work you're definitely going to have to cut the frame!

Toad

 

[26Troadster]

my response is because you may get the back wheels where you want them to be but the front will never look right because the front wheels will be to far back. that is from someone who is building a 26 t roadster on a budget. i built my frame but used a pinto front end that was $50.00 but it is mounted far enough forward to make it look better. old pics and will have around $2000.00 when done, if they ever are done.

 

[Skip]

Here is what I know.
108.3 in (2,751 mm) (reg. cab short bed)
117.9 in (2,995 mm) (reg. cab long bed)
122.9 in (3,122 mm) (ext. cab short bed)
Please don't pre-judge I just looking to see if someone who has done this on the Forum. I have seen examples of the result which is similar to my expectations.
Wheel base on stock S10 maybe misleading when it comes to the firewall placement. and engine placement, So The 108.3 regular cab short bed could be to short?
If I can avoid a frame cut to shorten that would be best. If I have to shorten that's OK too.
Thank you.

OK, I'll take the challenge. I am one of the kids putting an S10 under a PU.

First off, welcome to RRR/UDS. This is a great site, the people are great, and helpful. The only thing we usually get in anyone's kitchen about is safety stuff. We don't want you or anyone else injured or killed on the streets. We will share our opinion of stuff, but for the most part, we are supportive, and willing to learn new stuff.

NOTE; The main issue here is that most people think the suspension and steering setup on this frame are butt ugly, and should not be put out there for the world to have to look at. If you like the look, or the idea of making more traditional builders cringe, don't worry about what the rest of the world thinks. You are not building it for them.

You can make the wheelbase work, but I don't see any way to not have frame and spring hangers sticking out the back. (I guess you could put a really short PU bed or something on it to hide that.) Get the long frame, and shorten it to what you need. There are a couple threads that cover how to remove the welds at the middle and adjust the length. Its mostly grinding, a little cutting, and then welding it back together.

The frame width is also a big issue. It is way wider than the Model A, especially at the front. You can "fix" this too, by replacing the torque boxes with straight tubing or the like, but you are getting into serious fabrication stuff there. If you choose to go this route, you can skip the frame shortening mentioned above, and adjust length here.

Then you still have the steering box way out in front where you can't hide it. Depending on how you trim the frame heads, the steering box might get in the way of the radiator, etc. But that can be sorted out depending on what you want the final design to be.

Something else to consider is that this is a truck frame and suspension, and a Model A body will not touch the weight that it is designed to carry. It won't be a soft ride. Unless you bag it, of course.

There are other challenges, but that is part of the fun.

Start a build thread, and we can pick on you (i mean support you) while you work on it.

 

[Bamamav]

You'd be better off to build a frame out of 2" x 4" steel box tubing than try to adapt a S10 frame. If you want IFS, there are some you weld it kits you could buy to keep the costs down, search "Welders series". Most people think IFS looks bad on a fenderless car if you use the factory A arms, tubular arms are better looking but still look somewhat out of place. A straight I beam or tube axle looks much better and is easier to set up. Most cars up to 1948 used straight axles, and most pickups until the early 1960's, so they aren't that hard to find used. Lots of ways to support them, cross spring, parallel leafs, or coil overs.

S10 swaps work better on 40's vehicles that are wider than your Model A. I've seen it tried before, and the results were never good.

 

[Old Iron]

I'd use the 122.9" one [P[P[P

 

[Blue Eyed Devil]

 

[smallfoot]

Supposed to be 1973 Bronco under that Model A...

 

[tomtbone]

OK, I'll take the challenge. I am one of the kids putting an S10 under a PU.

First off, welcome to RRR/UDS. This is a great site, the people are great, and helpful. The only thing we usually get in anyone's kitchen about is safety stuff. We don't want you or anyone else injured or killed on the streets. We will share our opinion of stuff, but for the most part, we are supportive, and willing to learn new stuff.

NOTE; The main issue here is that most people think the suspension and steering setup on this frame are butt ugly, and should not be put out there for the world to have to look at. If you like the look, or the idea of making more traditional builders cringe, don't worry about what the rest of the world thinks. You are not building it for them.

You can make the wheelbase work, but I don't see any way to not have frame and spring hangers sticking out the back. (I guess you could put a really short PU bed or something on it to hide that.) Get the long frame, and shorten it to what you need. There are a couple threads that cover how to remove the welds at the middle and adjust the length. Its mostly grinding, a little cutting, and then welding it back together.

The frame width is also a big issue. It is way wider than the Model A, especially at the front. You can "fix" this too, by replacing the torque boxes with straight tubing or the like, but you are getting into serious fabrication stuff there. If you choose to go this route, you can skip the frame shortening mentioned above, and adjust length here.

Then you still have the steering box way out in front where you can't hide it. Depending on how you trim the frame heads, the steering box might get in the way of the radiator, etc. But that can be sorted out depending on what you want the final design to be.

Something else to consider is that this is a truck frame and suspension, and a Model A body will not touch the weight that it is designed to carry. It won't be a soft ride. Unless you bag it, of course.

There are other challenges, but that is part of the fun.

Start a build thread, and we can pick on you (i mean support you) while you work on it.

Ok we think alike....very nice, and appreciated!

 

[Dr Crankenstein]

Welcome to Undead Sleds.

I have seen examples of the result which is similar to my expectations.

I'd like to see those examples. Got any pictures?

Like the guys said, an S10 chassis won't fit your Tudor body at all. The chassis is too wide at the cowl, the axle is too far back and the radiator is too far forward.

I took this photo a few years ago. It's an Essex 4 door cut to make a PU, S10 subframe grafted to a... ummmm... top hat '36- '54 Chevy frame? The S10 subframe is cut before it gets WIDER, but it's still wider than the body's cowl. This guy made extensive modifications and improved the proportions some...

Exposed suspension and terrible proportions aside, this is your single largest stumbling point... width at the cowl. The Essex/S10 chassis (above) is cut at the leading edge of the circle below...

Also mentioned, this is a friendly site and we do our best to give friendly advice.

Welcome again!
.

 

[tomtbone]

it appears to be Z/ed

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j_ht39BAync

Enjoy Willie and Walan

 

[donsrods]

I am building a Model A Tudor Sedan.
Which S10 wheel base works best?
I am using the Main cab only. In other words, DELETE fenders running boards and hood.

Thank you for your help!
Tom.

One thing you will find, Tom, is that the guys on this forum are the least judgmental on the internet. They always go out of their way to be kind and supportive of a fellow rodder. That being said, they are being very truthful in telling you that some things simply should not be done. An S10 frame ( or most modern car or truck frames) have no place under a model a body.

Yes, it might be a means to an end, but anyone who builds a car wants to be proud of it, and show that they have done something well. Just throwing a car together will never really get you any respect or let you feel good about what you accomplished.

The work you would put in adapting a frame would be a lot more than just doing it right and making one from rectangular tubing, or in modifying a stock model a frame , and the car would look great.

We are just giving you the best advice we can, from people who have been down this road more than once.

 

[kenny c]

It's hard to be sure but it looks like it may be just the front clip grafted to a narrower frame.