School Shooting , just sick

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colt also

the colt .45 1911 model was around too.

from a news article l found,

"On March 29th, 1911, the Browning-designed, Colt-produced the model 1911 .45 automatic pistol was available."

l think there is always been a lot of violence, just more people with camera's and news agency's to report more of the stuff. 70 years ago there was not the instant communication we have today.

Later :cool:
 
70 years we had better morals.When you left your keys in your cars.Slept with the windows open.Now they steal the screens off your house and every trip to Walmart could result in a broken side glass.
 
This is really a complex issue. If it were just as simple as taking weapons away that would be one thing, but it goes way deeper than that.

One of the biggest contributors to today's problems is the demise of the family unit. With a 50% divorce rate, mothers having multiple "baby's Daddies", and kids being left to raise themselves, it is no wonder a lot of kids go down the wrong path. Kids need structure and good examples to look up to, and those are seriously lacking in today's society.

Another HUGE contributor is all the violence on TV and in video games. Kids today are exposed to rampant sex and violence every direction they turn. They come home from school and instead of going out and interacting with other human beings they sit glued to a computer monitor, blowing up stuff and shooting the enemy. You could isolate the best kid in the world and bombard him with images of people dying on screen and he would start thinking that is the way it should be.

Finally, we have got to get assualt weapons out of the hands of criminals and kids. Every gangbanger in every town is either carrying a 9mm or an AK47. We have had a ton of shootings here locally this past year and most of them involve weapons that spit out rounds as fast as they can pull the trigger, or have been converted to automatic illegally.

Don
 
Finally, we have got to get assualt weapons out of the hands of criminals and kids. Every gangbanger in every town is either carrying a 9mm or an AK47. We have had a ton of shootings here locally this past year and most of them involve weapons that spit out rounds as fast as they can pull the trigger, or have been converted to automatic illegally.

Don

I'm with you on kids not having access to firearms without supervision except for those cases like where a young girl babysitting was able to save her own life and the lives of her siblings by access to a firearm during a home intrusion.

A bullet is supposed to come out when you pull the trigger....

And they are not supposed to come out when you don't pull the trigger...

looks like the guns work perfectly

Criminals are not members of society
How is assaulting society going to change criminals?

We wouldn't have a gang problem if they didn't have something illegal to sell or unarmed people to take advantage of

Not less than a year ago a guy that went postal had police pinned down with a single shot bolt action and his neighbor who had him flanked shot him with a revolver

When Adam's mother went looking for help she should have gotten it instantly
We have fusion centers compiling information on every citizen, why didn't they cross reference his mothers assertion he was unstable with the attempted gun purchases and investigate if he was a threat?
Are fusion centers using intelligence to identify and investigate threats or politically to control people and punish whistle blowers?

Politicians are trying to put the handcuffs on the wrong people,but then again it's always easier to punish the innocent or the weak than it is to go after the violent and dangerous...
Let them get away with it and you end up as human shields between the cops and the criminals.

A 9mm is popular but no more dangerous than any other calibur, How does popularity make a particular gun more deadly?
The federal government last year bought over 1 billion rounds of hollow point ammo illegal for use in warfare but entirely legal for creating terminal woulds in living targets.
Is the purpose for shooting a perpetrator to arrest him or to kill him?
The constitution says the decision to kill belongs to a jury.

Hollow-points, and previous iterations of expanding bullets, have drawn special attention since as far back as the St. Petersburg Declaration of 1886, which outlawed exploding projectiles in international warfare. In 1899, the Hague Convention specifically banned the use of bullets that expand or flatten in the body.

Creeps crave power. The smarter ones, they seek out positions of power>
The people have surrendered control of their government. They don't even have a clue what the boundaries were and what we have is so far off the reservation...
Considering everything the government has done that violates the constitution or in other words is unlawful, considering all the illegal laws, the illegal actions that don;t even have the support of illegal laws...
In the light of everything they have already done that is a matter of record according to their own documents where no-one gets punished and everyone looks the other way...

What is it that they could be planning that is so insidious they don't feel comfortable initiating it until the people are disarmed?
If we can tolerate all that they have done so far what is on the table that we would not tolerate?

I think the police in CT were top notch and did an excellent job and there was nothing anyone could have done to prevent this except those people close to the murderer before it happened.

He suicided without engaging the police. If he was armed less effectively it would not have expedited the situation
If he had automatic weapons it most likely would not have extended the conflict, he chose suicide over conflict.

He probably could have killed 20 or 30 people with a machete in the same amount of time, even more with pipe bombs or poison gas so you really can't say a wholesale gun ban would have prevented this.

Why do these things always happen when socialists are in control of government?
Why is it always a crazy person on drugs who either everyone that knew was bonkers or the murder was never know to be crazy before or after and claimed they were drugged and forced to do it?

automatic weapons are not as deadly as single shot weapons except for when you are faced with multiple engagements at close range in tight quarters.
On the streets an automatic weapon is most likely to hit an unintended target than to hit who the bullets were intended to kill.
If you can't weld good weld alot...
If you can't shoot good shoot alot?
neither of these 2 theories work out so yeah I'm against machine guns on the street

machine guns are automatic weapons
Semi automatic weapons are not machine guns but people being so easy to control can be easily led to feel the same emotions about single shot weapons that recock themselves that they have about machine guns.
Controlling people is done through their emotions
People think their thoughts are their own like they think their feelings are their own.
In actuality feelings are involuntary instinctual reactions to environment.
A thinking person can control a feeling person simply by controlling their environment.
People either feel or think
They might have feelings about their thoughts
Or they might have thoughts about their feelings
But they don't feel and think at the same time, by this I mean either one process or the other wins out and directs the person.
And when you flood people with emotions it is so much easier to do their thinking for them.
When you flood them with strong emotions most of them don't think at all
 
I agree Bob.

We already have laws against anything fully auto. And they don't work. More laws is just going to take away from the honest people, not the criminals. I don't understand why it's so hard for our government to see that.

Eric
This is really a complex issue. If it were just as simple as taking weapons away that would be one thing, but it goes way deeper than that.

One of the biggest contributors to today's problems is the demise of the family unit. With a 50% divorce rate, mothers having multiple "baby's Daddies", and kids being left to raise themselves, it is no wonder a lot of kids go down the wrong path. Kids need structure and good examples to look up to, and those are seriously lacking in today's society.

Another HUGE contributor is all the violence on TV and in video games. Kids today are exposed to rampant sex and violence every direction they turn. They come home from school and instead of going out and interacting with other human beings they sit glued to a computer monitor, blowing up stuff and shooting the enemy. You could isolate the best kid in the world and bombard him with images of people dying on screen and he would start thinking that is the way it should be.

Finally, we have got to get assualt weapons out of the hands of criminals and kids. Every gangbanger in every town is either carrying a 9mm or an AK47. We have had a ton of shootings here locally this past year and most of them involve weapons that spit out rounds as fast as they can pull the trigger, or have been converted to automatic illegally.

Don
 
Found this interesting statistic.

School shootings in the USA and Canada since 1996.


I see a lot of finger pointing at criminals, but I wonder how many of these shootings were done by criminals?


C370999A-5B87-404C-BD79-76FD03EC2FC8-167-00000018B89E41A2.jpg
 
control

and if you take notice and count the states, seems a lot more happen in places with the strictest gun control.

the mall and school shootings are a terrible thing to happen, taking the ability to defend yourself away leads me believe more of these things will happen.

don't see many police stations getting shot up. cowards will pick the easiest targets and gun free zones are like a candy store to kids for these wackos.

it is not about gun control, it is about people control.

Later :cool:
 
People control you say?

That's funny, because of all the anti-socialism remarks being made. So much for being a "free nation"??? [S

Let's ask Sarge how many of his brethren are killed each year. Since you brought up the police...

I have no problem with being able to defend ourselves. But with that, you give EVERY law-abiding citizen that right. How many of these shootings are the result of a law-abiding person just losing it one day, and killing everything in sight? How come that point is so blatantly avoided? What's next? Medical records of each individual American becoming public knowledge to the police, and firearms sellers? Do you really want to go that route? Has America become a country of such mis-trust that everyone has their finger on the trigger all the time? What kind of quality of life is that, where you no longer trust your neighbours, your kids teachers and coaches? Can't even go to the grocery store without fear of being shot?

I truly feel terrible for the victims of these shootings. But some of the opinions posted, by gun owners have twisted things around to make them the victims, and not the actual victims.

Of course, this is just my opinion based on observation. And I know that some of you will get all up in my grille...but I too have a right to express opinion. And just so you know, I have lived in the USA for a few years. I was in Boyne City, Michigan when 9/11 happened...
 
What is it that they could be planning that is so insidious they don't feel comfortable initiating it until the people are disarmed?
If we can tolerate all that they have done so far what is on the table that we would not tolerate?

http://times247.com/articles/pravda-with-obama-s-re-election-communism-won

Our government can't control an armed society. Sandy Hook has nothing to do with the latest push for gun control
 
trying

not to be rude,,,


l spent a lot of time in Vancouver BC and when l worked worked up there, even with the strict gun control; THERE STILL WAS A BUNCH SHOOTINGS.

when l was there most Canadians had no real clue about why we have a second amendment.

been there for years and years and tried to discuss this and they just don't get it. l really don't know why.

guns are not to protect your'e rights, they are a right, and that helps protect all our other rights.

without some fear of the people rising up, the government here would turn us into a third world dictatorship. the first thing hitler done was promise a utopia, then outlawed guns and proceeded to kill a lot of people.

those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it.

Later :cool:
 
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Skull: With respect, I'll give my opinion...

The second amendment is difficult to comprehend for the average Canadian because the need to protect ourselves carries the same odds as hitting the lottery.

Canada's population is less than the state of California, yet we occupy a country slightly larger than the US of A. Generally speaking, we are seldom exposed to violent crime. Vancouver is a major port city rife with drug traffic and gang violence. Aside from that fact, the citizens of Vancouver will never see or experience gunfire... unless they find themselves in the wrong part of town at the wrong time. This equates into the gun control "fear mongering" perpetrated by the media... which most of this country's citizens ignorantly buy into.

That said, I do not agree with our gun laws. Psychopaths know no borders and history proves it beyond a shadow of doubt...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dawson_College_shooting

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/École_Polytechnique_massacre


..
 
Is it possible there could be some dark lord lurking in the shadow of evil dispatching minions and bringing his evil plan of destruction to fruition...someone like satan?
What if evil is not just the result of casting an opinion, what if it's real?
The Sandy shooter had a satanic website.
When I was a youth I had some pretty big chips on my shoulder and righteously so but when I lashed out It was against property. I never wanted to lash out in the way or severity I was trapped into by others who took advantage and I never wanted to hurt anyone and thankfully I did not.
I'm sure if it came to war and i had to to defend my home and my neighbors and family I could dispatch the threat but still would not desire to in any sense and I would probably be haunted of the memory of those I had dispatched for the rest of my life.
I can't imagine what makes a person want to do go out and hurt or kill anyone especially innocent people, something that I would not want to do to my worst enemy.

This is what you see from the Nazis, or from the bluecoats riding into Indian villages, or the Bolsheviks doing to the Czar and his family, Turkey to the Armenians... Or from gang members
You usually don't see this behavior from loners outside of peer sanction or without being mistaken (as a group) or misdirected into believing it is the will of god or having some protection or sanction of the group.

In the opening story of the Hobbit it's not the gold that draws the dragons attention to the Dwarves kingdom it is the love of it. "Slowly the days turned sour...The kings love of gold had grown too fierce. A sickness had begun to grow within him., A sickness of the mind.
And where sickness thrives...bad things will follow."

Tolkien wrote these words generations ago
Entirely plausible that society as a whole could be responsible for attracting and nurturing evil in ways not associated with weapons or killing except by those this evil comes to bear fruit in. The lesson of the tares in the bible is about weeds growing among the good plants in fertile soil and not being able to tell until the harvest which sprout is good and which is a weed.
It's not in this lesson but I'm drawing from it. the lesson about the tares regards fertile soil where anything good or evil can grow.
but there are still soils in which only weeds will grow and cultivating those soils will bring nothing but weeds
 
Unfortunately every weapon of great power does not come with a wise wizard and a lady of the Lake to ensure it falls only into the hands of the Just.

The case with this sandy murderer it was like "here little monkey have this gun".
(fake) http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=GhxqIITtTtU
(funny) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mmtX6Tj74oU

I am entirely against institutional regulation of who may or may not keep and bear arms but I'm not against some non institutional form of it. self regulation...
What if guns were peer regulated?
What if to be a gun owner you had to buy gun insurance and exhibit the capacity to bear arms responsibly or sanely to hold a permit? the insurance program would be owned by the body of gun owners so any criminal actions by a rogue gun owner would negatively impact the group of gun owners and leave it up to this group of gun owners and not the politicians or activists to decide who is qualified and who is not.
What if becoming a gun owner required becoming a member of a citizens militia that was not under the orders or control of the government, or required membership in the NRA and the NRA issued you your permit to bear arms?
Or what if State riflemen's associations were incorporated as non profits to teach, insure, and look out for trouble?
Much like in the way the NHRA and NASCAR, and not the government decide who gets to race and what the rules will be.
As long as responsible gun owners are the sole authority in control of gun regulations and who is responsible to bear arms I don't see a a shortage of arms should the need arise to defend against an evil government nor do I see the general public being disarmed for the pleasure of criminals.
But I do see the excuses used by the left like these mass murders being regulated away by actual democratic self governance versus the imposition of the state.

I also see it as a solution to the problems facing people in countries that infringe or prohibit gun rights.

Another thing I thing we need to face is the willingness and capability of our society to marginalize anyone we can find the slightest excuse to pounce upon. Tell me this does not create a condition for violence.
 
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I've spent most of my life on the highways, as a trucker, a biker and a hot rodder. I have seen the average law abiding citizen turn into crazy fools driving vehicles meant to be driven safley but they turn into deadly wepons. But the amazing thing is we take death on the highway for granted. It is projected 1300 people will die on the road during the holiday. That's one thousand three hundred people, WAY more than 26. Many of those that will die are innocent children. The most dangerous place in the world is the American highway and what does government do about it? The enact seat belt and air bag laws that are after the fact safety devices not designed to prevent accidents.
Where's the outrage, where's the lawmakers writing laws requiring tough effective training and mandatory retraining, much tougher penalties for drunk driving and reckless driving. I think if you kill someone with a vehicle it should be the same penalty as a gun killing. The victum is just as dead.
It won't happen because it doesn't give the elite power mongers more power and control.
 
There were some comments made earlier on in this thread about assault rifles.
Assault rifles are fully automatic, that is a machine gun. Yes a civilian can own a machine gun, but very few do. I have a close friend that legally owns a LAWS rocket launcher, and several full auto weapons. Lets not confuse a full auto assault rifle with a sporting gun that looks like an assault rifle. There is a difference.

gunpic.jpg
 
I've spent most of my life on the highways, as a trucker, a biker and a hot rodder. I have seen the average law abiding citizen turn into crazy fools driving vehicles meant to be driven safley but they turn into deadly wepons. But the amazing thing is we take death on the highway for granted. It is projected 1300 people will die on the road during the holiday. That's one thousand three hundred people, WAY more than 26. Many of those that will die are innocent children. The most dangerous place in the world is the American highway and what does government do about it? The enact seat belt and air bag laws that are after the fact safety devices not designed to prevent accidents.
Where's the outrage, where's the lawmakers writing laws requiring tough effective training and mandatory retraining, much tougher penalties for drunk driving and reckless driving. I think if you kill someone with a vehicle it should be the same penalty as a gun killing. The victum is just as dead.
It won't happen because it doesn't give the elite power mongers more power and control.

While I understand where you're going with this, there is a reason they are called accidents, because they are accidents. Normally - not always - but normally people don't get in their cars to go and kill someone, and they usually don't kill 20+ in one shot (or accident). The intent with going into a place - ie. school, post office etc. - with a gun is to shoot & kill people. You can reload a gun, it's kind of hard to reload a car. The intent to get into your car is to get to the store, or work, or to a family members house, not kill anyone.
This debate will go on forever. There never will be an answer that will appeal to everyone. Truly there won't. But, that is part of what makes this the greatest country on the planet. We all come together to discuss and resolve issues to the satisfaction of the the majority. We on this site, for the most part, are gun lovers and believe if you start to legislate any portion of the gun world it will become a slippery slope to a total ban on all guns. I personally believe that banning all firearms will not happen, and hope it never does.
As Isoroku Yamamoto, Commander-in-Chief of the Imperial Japanese Navy during World War II said, "You cannot invade the mainland United States. There would be a rifle behind every blade of grass."
 
It is pretty apparent from the back and forth posts on this subject on here that this is a really complex problem. Gives us a glimpse of what our President and other leaders are facing in trying to reduce these kinds of tragedies.

What is really disturbing is where we are as a society today. We humans think we are so smart and so advanced and yet we are living in an America (and world) that none of us older guys thought we would ever see. We went from a country where we didn't even lock our homes at night to one where we are talking about arming teachers and even now our kids have to be taught to be afraid of strangers, and they pass through metal detectors just going to school.

If you would have told any of us in 1950 that we would be living the way we are in 2012 we would have laughed at you, it seemed too Orwellian to think we would have to almost strip naked to get on a commercial flight, or any of the other things we now take as just part of normal life.

We consider ourselves the most evolved species on the planet but I think we are the most flawed and we are getting worse instead of better. If there ever is an end of this world it will be because of us, not some outside force.:(

Don
 
It is pretty apparent from the back and forth posts on this subject on here that this is a really complex problem. Gives us a glimpse of what our President and other leaders are facing in trying to reduce these kinds of tragedies.

What is really disturbing is where we are as a society today. We humans think we are so smart and so advanced and yet we are living in an America (and world) that none of us older guys thought we would ever see. We went from a country where we didn't even lock our homes at night to one where we are talking about arming teachers and even now our kids have to be taught to be afraid of strangers, and they pass through metal detectors just going to school.

If you would have told any of us in 1950 that we would be living the way we are in 2012 we would have laughed at you, it seemed too Orwellian to think we would have to almost strip naked to get on a commercial flight, or any of the other things we now take as just part of normal life.

We consider ourselves the most evolved species on the planet but I think we are the most flawed and we are getting worse instead of better. If there ever is an end of this world it will be because of us, not some outside force.:(

Don

Very well said Don! Wish you were running for the gov. in our country!
Brian
 
I know the government cant prevent people from owning guns just like they cant control illegal drugs. I do think schools could be made much safer by having the main entrance with a second set of locked doors and all other doors locked while class is in session. That way unwanted people could not walk right in. Of course this want stop all mass murders but it could help protect our children.
 

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