Suicide front with air bags... Better bag ride?

[kelseydum]

I have read that it is okay for air bags to be mounted at different angle on too and bottom... But it kind if bugs me. I came up with a design that might work well with the sleeve bags (can same space too). In this design the bags can be mounted parallel and be level at the bags intended ride height. I also came up with a cantilever design that may give more clearance in some cases and would be a lower ride height while keeping the bags aired up to what they should be for the best ride. Was trying to think of some kind of track that the lower bag mount could swivel on to where the cantilever moves but the bag mount doesn't... Maybe some other time, haha.

Anyway, if you see something that doesn't work feel free to chime in. I just like getting creative sometimes for fun.

 

[YBeNormal]

No reason that style won't work. You are close to this especially with the sleeve bags

http://www.rodandcustommagazine.com...itional_air_cen_pen_speed_shop/?__federated=1

 

[Dirtyrat]

This is one of the setups that I like a lot.

http://www.cenpen.com/new.htm

 

[kelseydum]

I stumbled across this part at tractor supply and thought this could work perfect for mounting the cantilevers on a true centerline. It says this is rated for 2,000lbs- 7,000 lbs. it's called a tandem equalizer and connects a leaf spring in each side. I would be worried to leave it all up to one bolt but I guess you could use two instead.

Anyway, just saw this and a light bulb went off... What do you guys think?

 

[kelseydum]

Okay, I'm getting close to being able to make the control arms for the front airbag set up. I was planning on using some good polyurethane bushings and then I saw these tonight at tractor supply. This steel ball would give me more rigidity and less sway. Not sure which to use and also if I use the metal on metal would I need to grease every so often? I was reading that some of these sleeve bushings have lubrication sort of "built in" to the sleeve is there any validity to this that you know of?

 

[zzrodder]

I think it's more important that the bag mounts line up properly when the bags are fully deflated or the bags could be damaged. A swivel on the lower mount could help keep the top and bottom mount flanges parallel in your design since the short arms tend to create mount angle changes through the range of arm movement.
It's important to figure out the ride height properly so that it is where the wheels will be straight up - as they move up and down, the camber will change, tipping the wheels in and out. It would look goofy if they were tilted in or out at ride height, besides wearing the tire badly and maybe unsafe. Abnormal tire wear was a problem on Ford pickups with the old Twin I Beam front ends after the springs had sagged and the tires stared to tilt in, wearing out the inside tread. If you've ever driven beside a Ford pickup with this front end on a bumpy road you can see the tires tilting in and out. Not that it's a bad thing, just something to be aware of (I have a Twin I beam front end on my own hot rod truck)

 

[kelseydum]

Thanks zzrodder. I have been putting in a LOT of design time and consideration into the things you mentioned. The convoluted backs can be wedged without damaging the bag but the sleeve bags aren't as forgiving. I am designing the arms so that the bags are perfectly perpendicular to the ground at ride height. I was more worried about flex in the wishbones when it's dropped down to the ground but hopefully the spring shackles will absorb that stress... Kind of wondering if I should use a little bit longer shackle than the typical front shackle.

Also, back to my point of the bushings, the Cen Pen kit appears to use hard bronze bushings. I think this is better to keep the pivot point from swaying side to side and only moving up and down.

 

[MercuryMac]

I'm agreeing with ZZ on the camber changes at each bump, and the air bags will have to bend sideways quite a bit, with each up and down movement. What if you moved your pivots further away from each wheel like the Twin-I-beam set up, or even further, to the outside of the opposite frame? Or, are there air bag units that would swivel at the top to compensate for the sideways movement at the bottom?
You're keeping us thinking.

 

[zzrodder]

Thinking about the Twin I beam front end.....
A pic of the original Ford design....
Pic of an off road variation, obviously they're not too concerned about the camber changes....
Airbagged version on an earlier pickup build i did...
Bagged Twin i beam front end on my Hennway pickup - when it is dropped, you can see the inward tilt of the front wheels - at ride height they are straight up. 18,000 miles on it so far and the tire wear is OK.
The long axles of the Ford setup help to minimize the camber changes during suspension travel - the shorter the axles are, the more pronounced the changes will be.

 

[AndreV8]

Lost Guy ...

Hi
I'm Andre from Brazil, I'm building a Rat Rod Ford Tudor 28, and now I and my friends are projecting the chassis, the idea is use the suicide axle with the airbags.

I'm searching something like you was projecting...

I saw your post is old, you have completed this project?

If you complete this project, can you help me? With pictures or Drawings..

Here in Brazil is almost impossible built this kind of car, difficult to buy parts and to search of ideas...

Sorry for my terrible english.

Thanks for your time....

I have read that it is okay for air bags to be mounted at different angle on too and bottom... But it kind if bugs me. I came up with a design that might work well with the sleeve bags (can same space too). In this design the bags can be mounted parallel and be level at the bags intended ride height. I also came up with a cantilever design that may give more clearance in some cases and would be a lower ride height while keeping the bags aired up to what they should be for the best ride. Was trying to think of some kind of track that the lower bag mount could swivel on to where the cantilever moves but the bag mount doesn't... Maybe some other time, haha.

Anyway, if you see something that doesn't work feel free to chime in. I just like getting creative sometimes for fun.

 

[Hoovail]

Here's what I did on my '28 A. Been working well for over a year now. Bags were affordable too.