tire spin balancing question

[k/mar]

i have a john bean 5.1 spin balancer that may or may not be working correctly.i got it for a steal from a tire shop but thats why im thinkin it prolly aint workin right.it goes thru calibration procedures corectly and says its good.problem is for example:i put a unbalanced wheel/tire on it using correct adaptors set all parameters and spin it , it tells me like 1.250z on left 1.00 oz on right.i place weights on rim at indicated locations and spin again.machine runs and says 000oz 000oz .i take it off and put the same balanced wheel/tire back on and respin it and it says i need like 1.75oz and .25oz in completly different locations?????wth how is this a balanced wheel?i asked a somewhat big tire dealer(not one i got machine from)an he says every machine he ever had would always call for more weight if you take it off an rerun it but usually small amounts.any experience on here got any insight on this?

 

[Old Iron]

I don't have any experience with a spin balancer but, if it runs smooth on the vehicle thru all the speeds up to 80 then no need to worry about it.
Another thing to do is call the John Bean Co. and see what they have to say.

 

[YBeNormal]

I can honestly say after it said zero I have never put a tire back on to double check.

 

[Sam_Fear]

Check to make sure the hub is clean and the rim is mounting completely flat on to it. It won't take much to throw off a tire. If the rim had crud on it, it should still read the same the second time. If the hub is slightly off....

 

[martyf]

I'll be buying a bubble balancer soon............

No one around me can spin my 31x18 rims and tires

 

[k/mar]

Im thinkin ill call factory and ask them monday but from what ive been hearing alott of ppl with balancers have never put one back on and checked it.Me being a cheapskate for many years i know that in alot of cases you can mount an old 75% worn out takeoff tire on a different rim , remove all weights and itl run smooth as silk thru all speeds a high percentage of the time.Ive also had wheels balanced that were running pretty tru (just chasin a lil bump)that shook like crazy AFTER the fresh balance,pulled off a few weights to have it go back to as was or better.My confidence in these machines is quickly goin down the drain.Im thinkin ill be buyin a bubble balancer soon.

 

[Shea Laking]

They work, but can be a little tricky...

...And yes, I've had the same situation happen to me. Usually ends up being a calibration issue.

The best machine I've ever used is a load force balancer. NEVER found anything that balances as well as those (even cheap, s#itty tires) PERIOD. WAY too expensive for a D.I.Y. garage, though.

I'd try and find some literature or help online. With all the stuff out there on almost anything, I'm sure you'll be able to find something.

Regards,
Shea

 

[Hydrocarbon Rocket]

I used one for 6 years. I often would recheck after 0. I always found it to be in the fitment on the chuck. Some wheels that have ran Lug Centric, need to be mounted on the Balancer Lug centric. Adapters can be purchased that will chuck up to your machine. Then, you just bolt the tire to the hub with lug nuts just as you would on the car. A hub centric wheel fits the cones much better and will usually read the same after 0 and re-mounted. Try a machined aluminum rim on it and see if it does the same. Most steel wheels centers are stamped and depends which side you put the cone on if it will be centered or not.

 

[RPM]

Balance the wheel, then add a 2 oz weight. Then respin. It should tell you to add a 2oz weight opposite of the first one.

What kind of wheels are you balancing and how are the mounted on the machine. Are you mounting off the center hole with cones or off the lug holes with adapters? The reason I ask is I worked for Goodyear for 15 years and we had all kinds of problems with the adapters that used the lug holes. We could never get that to work out correct.

Also is the tire wheel combination running true. No lateral or radial run out?

 

[k/mar]

ive balanced the wheel then added 2oz and respun ,it does indicate 2oz exactly opposite that one .i think it is working good as long as i dont unchuck it.i took it off the machine and left the 2oz in place put it back on and now its tellin me it needs 1.75oz on left side and 1oz on other and this is not in a position opposite the xtra 2oz is in?i am using the cone setup as indicated in the manual and this is a steel factory wheel.i can see it is running pretty true most of the time but sometimes i can see it isnt running as true as it was so i can loosen it up and reposition it and it looks good but it still doesnt indicate the xtra 2oz like i think it should.the cone appears to be in good shape but it does have some use on it .do these tend to wear out?I guess its possible the shaft is bent a lil or bearings on the spin shaft have some slack,ill try a indicator on it next trip to the shop.i have also done this with a different factory steel wheel with a small hole which requires a different cone and the results are still the same.all over the place once removed from machine?i have put the tire on truck after balancing and it runs smooth up to 80mph just for kicks i took off all weights and it still runs smooth up to 80mph ?it had 1.75oz on inside and 1.0 on outside.im thinkin IF all these things work with this kind of accuracy its just some kind of voodoo magic to get ppls money!hopefully i can get some kind of resolution from factory tomm but im not figuirin they gonna put much thought to it since the machine is like a 1989 model.

 

[Willowbilly3]

I've seen that on every balancer I ever used but usually not that much. It leads me to believe you aren't getting the wheel on concentric every time.
I hate taking tires to a tire shop. They just close the lid and hammer on the weights, never look to see if the wheel is bent or if there is runout. When I had access to a balancer, I balanced every tire 4-5 times. Mark off 4 places at 90 degrees and spin it on every one of them (breaking the tire down each time) and then go ahead and balance it where it takes the least weight. It's kind of a pain but really worth it, especially if you have big tires or steel wheels.

 

[RPM]

ive balanced the wheel then added 2oz and respun ,it does indicate 2oz exactly opposite that one .i think it is working good as long as i dont unchuck it.i took it off the machine and left the 2oz in place put it back on and now its tellin me it needs 1.75oz on left side and 1oz on other and this is not in a position opposite the xtra 2oz is in?i am using the cone setup as indicated in the manual and this is a steel factory wheel.i can see it is running pretty true most of the time but sometimes i can see it isnt running as true as it was so i can loosen it up and reposition it and it looks good but it still doesnt indicate the xtra 2oz like i think it should.the cone appears to be in good shape but it does have some use on it .do these tend to wear out?I guess its possible the shaft is bent a lil or bearings on the spin shaft have some slack,ill try a indicator on it next trip to the shop.i have also done this with a different factory steel wheel with a small hole which requires a different cone and the results are still the same.all over the place once removed from machine?i have put the tire on truck after balancing and it runs smooth up to 80mph just for kicks i took off all weights and it still runs smooth up to 80mph ?it had 1.75oz on inside and 1.0 on outside.im thinkin IF all these things work with this kind of accuracy its just some kind of voodoo magic to get ppls money!hopefully i can get some kind of resolution from factory tomm but im not figuirin they gonna put much thought to it since the machine is like a 1989 model.

I think it is time to get the factory rep to take a look at it. It should do a lot better than what you are getting.

 

[coostv]

From my past life as a service writer for Wards and a Belle Tire, you will get that for the same reasons already discussed. I would get PO'd at the tire guys when I would take a customers car back in and re-run some of the prior balances due to a vibration issue. 9 times out of ten it was a chucked weight, but sometimes it was a bad tire. Just about every time they read different when putting them back on the second time regardless. If I were you, I would balance a set and run them, see where you end up.

 

[offroadrolls]

Does anyone remember the old "on the car" type spin balancers? Those were cool. I used to use one from time to time in a shop I worked in back in the 70's.

 

[Willowbilly3]

Does anyone remember the old "on the car" type spin balancers? Those were cool. I used to use one from time to time in a shop I worked in back in the 70's.

I remember watching the help use one in my dad's Conoco station, circa 1964-65. That is probably the best method, balalnces the whole rotating mass, not just the tire/wheel

 

[k/mar]

factory wasnt much help other than they said it should b balanced no matter how many times i put it on and off.recommended a service tech to come look at machine but mentioned with its age it mght not be worth repairing.im just gonna spin em an put em on till i have an issue i guess.thanks for everyones opinions and experiences.

 

[sgtpontiac]

I'll have to say the same thing....never rechecked one..

once it was balanced it was put on the car....if memory serves me (and the old machines I'm sure were not as precision as todays) when you mount the wheel and tire you do a sort of zeroing on the machine..right or wrong? If that is the case....then everytime you remount the tire, it would see it differently....
(See this is why I loved the old "on the car" spin balancers..)...lol

Did the guys you bought it from indicate any problems? and did you actually put the tire on and drive it..?? guess that is what I would do after you balance it...should be evident right away if the machine is fubar.....JMHO

 

[TIMOTHALE]

old spin machine

I have an old balancer, two step process, first you mount the wheel with lug bolts to the adaptor plate on the machine, then release the spindle and rotate down so the wheel is in the car position and release the indicator needle. the wheel will rotate with the heavy spot moving to the bottom. the speed that the tire turns gives and indication of how much weight to add, splitting inside and outside . recheck and adjust weight location-or amount until the tire does not want to turn, checking at 3 and 9 o clock position for the weight, Next rotate the wheel 90* to horizontal and turn on a spinner motor and swing it into start the tire spinning up to about 50 mph. I has a disc , similar to a brake rotor under the wheel.lift a lever to have a couple rollers level the rotor, If the dynamic balance is out the tire will wobble when spinning. the rollers make the disc run true. Then I rotate the tire back to car position and swing in the indicator needle. It contacts the rotor disc and you rotate the tire by hand and watch the indicator needle move across the scale. It will tell you how much to add to the inside and outside at opposite locations / If the needle tell you to add near the static weight locations you move the existing weights inside or outside and respin and repeat. It's a long process. The machine used to be in the back room of a buick dealership and they only used it when the modern computer one wouldn't give a good balance.