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Syndicate Chopz
Well-known member
Been finding some stuff on tha Watts Link...
Anybody know of a useful thread on this??
Anybody know of a useful thread on this??
Bonehead
Skull Master
Here is some good info I stole from the net...
On a road car with soft suspension and a fairly large amount of wheel travel, a Panhard rod may not be the best answer. The lateral motion allowed by the rod gives a rear-axle steering effect when the wheels rise and fall over bumps. This tends to make the car wander, particularly when going over undulating roads at high speeds. Small bumps will generally not cause any problem because they cause only a small amount of wheel travel.
A lateral locating device which does not have this problem is a Watts linkage. This is more complex and takes up more space than a Panhard rod, so it is not always the best solution. However, the geometry is better and it should be considered if at all possible.
A Watts linkage consists of the two parallel lateral links plus a vertical link connecting them. If the horizontal links are parallel and equal length they will have the same amount of lateral motion as the ends attached to the vertical link. Because each lateral motion is in a different direction, this rotates the vertical link through some angle, but the center of the vertical link is not affected. This center point travels in a true vertical path, and that is where the axle is attached.
A Watts linkage can consist of tubing for the lateral links, using spherical rod ends for pivots. The vertical link is a beam, and should be designed to carry bending loads. The center pivot is usually a rigid bearing on a stud or post so it can rotate but not pivot laterally. If a spherical bearing were used here, the linkage would collapse.
The links must be horizontal or the linkage won't give the proper axle motion. The attachment between the Watts linkage and the axle is a tough problem, and it must be designed strong enough to carry the side loads in cornering.
If the horizontal links on the Watts linkage are too short the linkage may not have enough vertical travel. A Watts linkage goes off perfect geometry at the extremes of its travel. Before building a Watts linkage make sure it has enough vertical travel to allow the full bump-to-droop motion of your suspension. to check this, use a compass and a big sheet of paper to make a scale drawing of the motion. Use the largest scale possible for accuracy. If you run out of travel make the horizontal links longer or shorten your suspension travel with suitable stops. Be sure the suspension wonÕt hit the stops in normal driving.
On a road car with soft suspension and a fairly large amount of wheel travel, a Panhard rod may not be the best answer. The lateral motion allowed by the rod gives a rear-axle steering effect when the wheels rise and fall over bumps. This tends to make the car wander, particularly when going over undulating roads at high speeds. Small bumps will generally not cause any problem because they cause only a small amount of wheel travel.
A lateral locating device which does not have this problem is a Watts linkage. This is more complex and takes up more space than a Panhard rod, so it is not always the best solution. However, the geometry is better and it should be considered if at all possible.
A Watts linkage consists of the two parallel lateral links plus a vertical link connecting them. If the horizontal links are parallel and equal length they will have the same amount of lateral motion as the ends attached to the vertical link. Because each lateral motion is in a different direction, this rotates the vertical link through some angle, but the center of the vertical link is not affected. This center point travels in a true vertical path, and that is where the axle is attached.
A Watts linkage can consist of tubing for the lateral links, using spherical rod ends for pivots. The vertical link is a beam, and should be designed to carry bending loads. The center pivot is usually a rigid bearing on a stud or post so it can rotate but not pivot laterally. If a spherical bearing were used here, the linkage would collapse.
The links must be horizontal or the linkage won't give the proper axle motion. The attachment between the Watts linkage and the axle is a tough problem, and it must be designed strong enough to carry the side loads in cornering.
If the horizontal links on the Watts linkage are too short the linkage may not have enough vertical travel. A Watts linkage goes off perfect geometry at the extremes of its travel. Before building a Watts linkage make sure it has enough vertical travel to allow the full bump-to-droop motion of your suspension. to check this, use a compass and a big sheet of paper to make a scale drawing of the motion. Use the largest scale possible for accuracy. If you run out of travel make the horizontal links longer or shorten your suspension travel with suitable stops. Be sure the suspension wonÕt hit the stops in normal driving.
Bonehead
Skull Master
More:
Some cars come stock with a Panhard rod, these are not very useful for an all-out car. A stock Panhard rod is usually equipped with rubber bushings at the ends, and these ar too flexible to do a lot of good for axle location.
The horizontal links of a Watts linkage built using heavywall tubing and spherical rod ends. The rod must be strong enough to take the cornering loads from the tires plus an occasional bump against a curb. Stress analysis of the rod is rather complex because buckling strength enters into the picture. If in doubt make it stout enough to support the entire weight of the car in compression.
The brackets on frame and axle are problems in building your own Watts linkage or Panhard rod. The height of the pivot point on the rear axle determines the roll center height, and normally you want this as low as possible to minimize weight transfer on the rear tires. Thus the bracket on the frame is usually quite long. Make sure this bracket is strong enough to carry the cornering load from the horizontal link. It is beyond the scope of this book to design brackets, but just keep in mind that the rod should be lined up with the center of the bracket structures so it wonÕt twist. The best bracket designs use double shear, with one mounting plate on each side of the link.
A Watts linkage will improve the handling, perhaps reduce oversteer or provide better high-speed stability.
Please contact Jim Fay at 920.279.0875 8 am to 8 pm Central Time
Some cars come stock with a Panhard rod, these are not very useful for an all-out car. A stock Panhard rod is usually equipped with rubber bushings at the ends, and these ar too flexible to do a lot of good for axle location.
The horizontal links of a Watts linkage built using heavywall tubing and spherical rod ends. The rod must be strong enough to take the cornering loads from the tires plus an occasional bump against a curb. Stress analysis of the rod is rather complex because buckling strength enters into the picture. If in doubt make it stout enough to support the entire weight of the car in compression.
The brackets on frame and axle are problems in building your own Watts linkage or Panhard rod. The height of the pivot point on the rear axle determines the roll center height, and normally you want this as low as possible to minimize weight transfer on the rear tires. Thus the bracket on the frame is usually quite long. Make sure this bracket is strong enough to carry the cornering load from the horizontal link. It is beyond the scope of this book to design brackets, but just keep in mind that the rod should be lined up with the center of the bracket structures so it wonÕt twist. The best bracket designs use double shear, with one mounting plate on each side of the link.
A Watts linkage will improve the handling, perhaps reduce oversteer or provide better high-speed stability.
Please contact Jim Fay at 920.279.0875 8 am to 8 pm Central Time
Bonehead
Skull Master
And there is this site:
http://www.sporttruck.com/techarticles/0804st_rear_suspension_design/panhard.html
http://www.sporttruck.com/techarticles/0804st_rear_suspension_design/panhard.html
Syndicate Chopz
Well-known member
THANKS BONEHEAD!!
That is some very useful information!!
I better get to studying... Should be working in tha
Watts Link maybe tomorrow or tha next day...
Keep in touch[
[[
That is some very useful information!!
I better get to studying... Should be working in tha
Watts Link maybe tomorrow or tha next day...
Keep in touch[
[[
Arrowood Rod & Kustom
Banned
cool build, I like more traditional wheels..but then again I kinda like the look of the chrome on there as well..keep up the good work, cant wait to see the hardlines done, I'm doing hardlines on my coupe
Syndicate Chopz
Well-known member
Syndicate Chopz
Well-known member
Starting tha Back Half...
Here is tha Start that I got on My back Half...
Just tack welding it all together for now, then I will build a Jig of some sort
before I take it off the Truck to fully weld it and Box it Top and Bottom....
Here is tha Start that I got on My back Half...
Just tack welding it all together for now, then I will build a Jig of some sort
before I take it off the Truck to fully weld it and Box it Top and Bottom....
Attachments
Syndicate Chopz
Well-known member
more Progress....
SO.... "BONEHEAD" stopped by to check out tha Progress....
He thought that I should definetly gusset tha inside of the Frame where it is going to be tied into tha Tube Chasis that is already there....
So I went crazy, and Probably Over Engineered it.... but atleast I know it will hold up....
Keep in mind I still have some Tubing to tie in when final welding is done, and I will add Gussets to tha Front side of the Back Half tyeing it in to tha Tube Chasis...
Plan was to Fully Box tha Frame Top & Bottom....
I will definetly be boxing the Radius over the Axle....
but I got to thinking.... after seeing how crazy tha Front Brace turned out
I might just leave the Top open and Just Box the Bottom with 1/4" Plate...
I believe that it is strong enough if left like this....
don't think that boxing the Top will do a whole lot more ...
I'd sure like to know your guys opinions tho!!!
what should i do??
Leave it??
Or
Box it??
SO.... "BONEHEAD" stopped by to check out tha Progress....
He thought that I should definetly gusset tha inside of the Frame where it is going to be tied into tha Tube Chasis that is already there....
So I went crazy, and Probably Over Engineered it.... but atleast I know it will hold up....
Keep in mind I still have some Tubing to tie in when final welding is done, and I will add Gussets to tha Front side of the Back Half tyeing it in to tha Tube Chasis...
Plan was to Fully Box tha Frame Top & Bottom....
I will definetly be boxing the Radius over the Axle....
but I got to thinking.... after seeing how crazy tha Front Brace turned out
I might just leave the Top open and Just Box the Bottom with 1/4" Plate...
I believe that it is strong enough if left like this....
don't think that boxing the Top will do a whole lot more ...
I'd sure like to know your guys opinions tho!!!
what should i do??
Leave it??
Or
Box it??
Attachments
Syndicate Chopz
Well-known member
few pics of the Crossmember...
Jus a Few pics of tha Rear Crossmember...
I got the Top & Bottom pieces finished...
I plan to Make patterns for all 4 sides, pull it off the truck,
and fully box it on each side...
I will have a friend TIG weld it, and Pressure test it...
this will be my Airtank for the Airride....
Jus a Few pics of tha Rear Crossmember...
I got the Top & Bottom pieces finished...
I plan to Make patterns for all 4 sides, pull it off the truck,
and fully box it on each side...
I will have a friend TIG weld it, and Pressure test it...
this will be my Airtank for the Airride....
Attachments
bob w
Still crazy after all these years!
That is some fine work! Looks like another unique, winning build here on the pages of RRR.[cl
CORPO
Buildin' it his way, one piece at a time...
I guess i was a little off on how to set up the watts... but always good to lean something new..
The rear cross member for an air tank is a good idea... thought about doing it myself with the two 3" diameter round cross members i put in... only problem is i thought about it after they were welded in.. and i cant get a full weld around them to seal them up... oops.. live and learn...
keep up the good work
The rear cross member for an air tank is a good idea... thought about doing it myself with the two 3" diameter round cross members i put in... only problem is i thought about it after they were welded in.. and i cant get a full weld around them to seal them up... oops.. live and learn...
keep up the good work
Syndicate Chopz
Well-known member
Whew!!
Whew!!
Long 12 hr day in tha garage fabbin away!! I'm really starting
to get excited!! It's all starting to come together now.... It's nice
to see all yur hard work come together....
Whew!!
Long 12 hr day in tha garage fabbin away!! I'm really starting
to get excited!! It's all starting to come together now.... It's nice
to see all yur hard work come together....
Gregster
Well-known member
That's some first rate work ! [
skyrush2
Well-known member
LOOKS like youve jumped on the "wheel" wagon.
Yeah! Those aren't the stock rims for that car. You should run the stock 31 Ford rims and tires for safety sake - Ford designed the car that way for a reason. Oh and they should be painted red....
The whole car rocks! Only thing I wonder is how the wide rims look from the front. Looked back and didn't see a good frontal pic. Too bad you didn't have some matching 4" wides for the fronts.
Am I a little grouchy today?
Oh and they should be painted red....The whole car rocks! Only thing I wonder is how the wide rims look from the front. Looked back and didn't see a good frontal pic. Too bad you didn't have some matching 4" wides for the fronts.
Am I a little grouchy today?
Syndicate Chopz
Well-known member
Yeah! Those aren't the stock rims for that car. You should run the stock 31 Ford rims and tires for safety sake - Ford designed the car that way for a reason.
The whole car rocks! Only thing I wonder is how the wide rims look from the front. Looked back and didn't see a good frontal pic. Too bad you didn't have some matching 4" wides for the fronts.
Am I a little grouchy today?
actually... Tha truck/car looks really wide from tha front...
Took me a while to get used to it...
Wish tha front wheels were a lil narrower myself....
There are 2 or 3 wide front builds on RRR. ANNAMEL's racecar to ratrod build is a good one. Yours will probably kinda have a racecar look to it too.
Bonehead
Skull Master
I have seen it in person.... it reminds me of one of those racing go-karts that do like 150 mph.
