Welding on your RAT

[kelseydum]

My buddy, who is a certified welder, welded his rear end spring pads with a 110 and they broke right off the first time he drove it. I'm no pro welder but would trust a 220 much more on chassis parts. On my rad I did all the welding where I felt safe but on stuff like the front perch mount and the front crossmember I let my father-in-law do the welding.

I'm kinda like Daman, my father-in-law calls my welds Gorilla welds. He said they are ugly as hell but strong as sh*t. I always made sure the metal is clean and that I'm getting penetration. I'm getting a lot better on welding thick stuff... it's the thin stuff that I need some more practice... and some tips would help.

I've heard of things like turn up the wire speed and to weld small areas using water to keep the metal cool. Anyone can tell you your doing it wrong, the difference is here they will tell you how to do it the right way too.

I do think that newbies are getting better about building safer rods due to sites like this where they can get honest feedback without being insulted.

 

[cantwell.colton]

I'm kinda like Daman, my father-in-law calls my welds Gorilla welds. He said they are ugly as hell but strong as sh*t

i like this.

great thread btw... having 2 kids safety is pretty tip top of my list -- 1. id be setting a bad example and 2. and more importantly i WILL not put them in that sort of danger -= fall from a tree or runover by a powerwheel definately -- but not when it comes to automobile safety and road safety -- i havent even really started my plymouth and have seatbelts coming in ... strong safe welds are just as important --- what good is a seatbelt if the brackets bust etc...

thanks again -- this post makes me feel better about my "gorrilla welds" not to mention my attention to safety..

 

[Reverend D]

I think personally that wire speed is just enough to fill the weld. Any more and your probably going to be grinding a lot of it off. Turning the wire speed up especially if you have the amp setting a bit to high will likely cause a big hole. I like to make a series of overlapping tack welds.

I'll do four or five, you can quench with a cold towel to keep warpage down. Move around and try not to heat one part of the panel up or you'll get some big warped areas that are a bitch to get straight and fill. I'll often hold a dolly on the side I welded on and tap them up a bit from the back with a body hammer, but don't get carried away and pop it out to much.

If you have holes to fill, what I liked to us and still have in my box somewhere is a thick piece of brass. I have a chunk a 1/2" thick, copper will work too. Hold it on the back side of the hole and then start on the edge of the hole and use small tacks in a circle until its filled. The brass keeps it from falling through and it won't stick to it. Voila hole filled.

Thats about the only advice I can give on sheet, I used to work on steel door frames and doors from 14-22 gauge with a mig and those things I found to work fo me, worked later when I was doing work on my Z car as well.

Thin metal is thin metal so give it a try and I wish you starting out with a mig luck, it won't take long to become very proficient at it if you work at it.

Oh yeah, for small patches a magnet will hold the panels, make it a strong magnet, but don't weld right up close to the magnet as it will do weird things to the weld obviously.

Regards,

Rev. D.

 

[TiredIronGRB]

Ratting is raw hot rodding, not purposely making junk for junks sake.

This is by far the best discription of a Rat Rod I've heard.

 

[kelseydum]

Yeah I forgot the brass trick. That work really well. Also, I couldn't remember the word for it but on thin metal "pulsing" is a good technique. Practice, practice, practice.

 

[DJ3100]

Questions about safe, structural welding:

When you build a rectangular tube chassis, do you miter the joint for the kick-ups? Or do you cut an angle on one piece and weld it to the side of the other, then grind the weld smooth?

If you miter, do you rosette weld a fishplate inside the joint? Do you bevel the tube before you weld it?

Do you make a test joint and cut it across the weld to check the penetration? If not, how do you know you have penetration?

Do you ever lay down a MIG weld and notice that the weld bead is red, but that one of the pieces failed to turn red - there is a dark line next to the weld bead?

The certified welders I know, say that if a weld looks like crap, it is crap. Are they correct?

Have you ever read the chart inside the cover of your MIG welder? The one that specifies wire speed and amperage for a given size wire, material and type of shielding gas.

Do you know how much more heat it takes to penetrate a surface than an edge? Did you ever weld a rosette that blended of the top surface, but got no penetration on the bottom?

Do you ever grind out a weld you're not sure about? Or do you just go back over it?

Do you weld too hot (undercut) to avoid welding too cold (no or little penetration). Which is better?

I don't believe anyone ever intentionally does unsafe work, but sometimes you don't know what you don't know.

 

[bob w]

I went to school many, many years ago with the intention of becoming a shop teacher. Stick welding and oxy-acetylene welding were taught. First arc welding lesson was to take a piece of 1/4" steel and lay stringer beads on it. Each rod made one complete pass. After one side was full the instructor would look at it and make suggetions. Stringer beads were made until the piece weighed 20 lbs. By then, a person's technique was prety good.
All of the welding exercises, except for pipe, fillet welds, etc., were done on various thicknesses of 3" wide flat stock. Each weld was subjected to a face bend of 180 degrees with the weld through the middle of the bend. The same weld on another piece recieved a root bend.
There could be no cracking or other signs of failure.
This procedure was even done for brazing on 3/8" material. That was a hard one to pass.

When I got a wirefeed, I was quite uncomfortable with it, thinking there couldn't be good penetration as compared to stick welding. I did a lot of testing of my welds before I became comfortable with their strength.

While I certainly don't know enough about welding to be a good resource or offer many suggetions, I assure that my work is strong. In 53 years I have never had a weld break. And, I tend to use thinner materials than some of you guys (.120" wall for frames for example). I aso don't fish plate or gusset except in particularily high stress areas.

I expect my welded joints to be as strong as the parent metal, and so far that has proven to be the case.

If you are unsure about the integrity of your welds, don't just overplate or reinforce, practice welding and test the results so you can weld with confidence. A badly welded reinforcement over a bad weld is not wise. A reinforcement should be used where the geometry and loading of the construction requires it, not to compensate for a bad weld.

 

[DJ3100]

Many home hot rod builders seem to have the 110 wire feed welder, which is fine and does a good job for most welding, but when it comes to welding heavier steel such as spring perches or pitman arms have a profesional welder do it. If that is out of the question borrow a 220 welder, or take your project to a place where youy can use one. A 110 will not allways get the penatration needed, if you don't have access to the previous and you have an oxy-acetyline torch, preheat the thicker steel this will greatly aid in penatration and help to eliminate the dreaded cold start blobs.

I agree:
My Lincoln SP175. a 175 amp 220 Volt welder is running .025 dia wire. It works great on sheet metal. The chart inside the cover stops at 12 ga. for .025 wire. In other words, Lincoln does not recommend welding 1/8" steel with this wire in this welder.

One could safely assume that a 110 volt 125 amp MIG welder is not the welder to use to make safe welds in anything thicker than 14 ga.

 

[kzoldman]

From Bob - “I went to school many, many years ago with the intention of becoming a shop teacher. Stick welding and oxy-acetylene welding were taught. First arc welding lesson was to take a piece of 1/4" steel and lay stringer beads on it. Each rod made one complete pass. After one side was full the instructor would look at it and make suggestions. Stringer beads were made until the piece weighed 20 lbs. By then, a person's technique was pretty good.”

Remember taking that in school Bob. We all would joke about getting jobs building the Alaskan Pipeline. I remember once when I was getting ready to turn my plate in with stringer beads on it, I decided to clean it up good with a wire brush. It would not stay still so I took my left hand with no glove on and put it down on top of the stringers beads to hold the plate still. I had a nice brand on my hand of stringer beads. Stupid

I am planning on tacking my frame together and then taking it to a guy down the road that does wire welding for a living. I trust my sticking welder but not the little 110 wire welder I have for thick stuff. I could do it with the stick but it is much cleaner with the wire.