Welding thin, rusty, pitted, brittle sheet metal.....what's the best way???

[Thefarmboy21]

So how do you guys go about welding the really nasty stuff? I'm talking thin, pitted and brittle......and of course rusty! I'm a welder by trade and I've done a little bit of all of it, but I'm concerned about the stuff I have to work with. It's a 1950 International, fresh of the Farm and out of the weeds it's been in since 1968/69 we think. My grandpa bought it new. Anyway I've got a Mig that uses gas or flux-core.....or I was wondering about Brazing and a guy I work with mentioned 1/16" 6011 stick rods. The truck is all there, minus what's lost from rust cancer, but I want to keep as much of the sheet metal as possible by just patching it back up. I'd also prefer to grind as little as possible for two reasons: 1. Obviously it would cut away what metal is left, giving me less to work with. And 2. I want to leave all the welds bare over the rust and just clear the whole truck and I think it would look better with just weld over rust, rather than 2" wide strips of bare metal from the grinder. THANKS!!! I'll try to post some pics too.

 

[sneakysnake]

Usually you want to cut out the rot and get back to some solid metal, that belt line,window and door bottom are in pretty bad shape.

 

[Thefarmboy21]

Well the cab line is by far the worst, but that line is where I'm going to chop it so I'm hoping it'll work. The back window I'm not too worried about because if I can patch it up I'll weld in a whole new window from a junkyard or something. The door is kinda cool looking I my opinion, but I might section the truck and if so, that part will leave too.

So I'm not worried, just concerned by the overall condition of the rest of it. Didn't know what the best welding "process" would be. Another long time welder said Brazing would maybe work too and would leave some sweet looking brazed lines everywhere I welded.

 

[Yankee Transplant]

find another truck dont want to hurt your feelings ,, unless this has some sentimental value ,, I believe you can find another in a little better shape JMO Im no welder or body man but I think even a top welder will have trouble with this condition.

 

[Bonehead]

By the looks of it, I'd say it is about gone. Could it be welded? Yes. The time and trouble to weld on that would probably not be worth it. You are going to be chasing holes in all directions. Some of those pits look pretty deep. If you do weld it, turn the machine down, and use small wire, mix gas, and use a copper or brass chunk to back each weld.

 

[Sam_Fear]

Filling rust holes for cosmetic reasons on that rusted of metal, I do like Bonehead said and even give more lead out on the wire at times - it gets to be more like artistic painting than actual welding at some point. Keep it cool too since blow through is real easy. Brass wire wheel just where you need to weld. I mean what are you worried about, clean welds? Look what you're welding on - the welds will outlast the rest of it anyhow!

If it's welding for support or structure, you might want to think instead, more along the lines of a structural support frame inside.

Would TIG work better than MIG?

In Ohio, like Iowa, I'm sure the cleaned metal will be rusted over in a matter of weeks anyhow.

 

[von-zipper]

You could always use that cab sort of as is but like some of the guys said, might be easier to find another one instead. My dad used to fix stuff like that with a torch, flux & a coat hanger.

Zipper

 

[sgtpontiac]

I think Bonehead and Sam hit it on the head...

I'm certainly not in the class of welder or fabricator as bonehead or a ton of guys on this site....even though you are a professional I'd say you'd be wasting a ton of time and the end result won't be anything you'll like or be satisfied with.....but that is JMHO.....

 

[Bonehead]

Would TIG work better than MIG?

TIG likes clean metal, MIG would be my choice. oxy acetylene welding would work, but would pop, and blow out a lot.

 

[GJunktionMike]

And it may just be me but argon/co2 blend seems to run better on rusty stuff. Could be wrong [S

 

[Thefarmboy21]

I appreciate all the input fellas, but I wot be talked out of it. This was the first thing my Grandpa ever bought new that I know of. I've been trying to get it since I was a kid. Then it would've been a solid build point and it sickens me of how bad they let it rot, BUT.....it's the hand I've been dealt. I don't care about looks, or structural integrity really. I'll put it together with pop rivets if I have to. I plan on putting a cage inside it anyway. And most of the bad rust will be cut out anyway. 4" Chop, channel and a section job will take most of the nasty stuff out. The rest I'll just make panels for or braze up......I've got TONS of 24" brazing rods all the way from 1/16" to 1/4" Mainly I use 75/25 gas and .023 wire in my welder for all the other stuff I weld. Plus my goal is 3.5 years out anyway (son goes to Kindergarden) so I've got the time

 

[Bonehead]

Good for you! It will be a project for sure.

 

[Yankee Transplant]

Hey that sentimental thing means a lot that way when it comes together you will have something that your Granpaw had driven ..Im looking forward to seeing some more pictures.. [P[P[P You will get some good help on here . all you have to do is ask ..And like you said when you chop and section maybe the worst will go away .. [[

 

[Thefarmboy21]

Thanks guys, I'm really looking forward to this build.....maybe not the labor, but the build in general lol. I work at a Fab shop with some pretty talented guys and good equipment that I can use when need be. Plus I ised to build Demolition derby cars with several guys and one off buddies built a pretty sweet 1950 Ford rat a couple years ago that was almost as bad as mine but not quite. SO, I've got the means necessary and the time, just have to hone up my own personal skills and try to get as much garage time in as I can, when I can.

*I'll start a build thread once I get it cleaned out and start striping it down.

 

[zzrodder]

With a MIG, I've welded to some VERY thin rusty metal and filled rusted pinholes also, it depends on your level of patience and what kind of finished weld area you are expecting achieve. Even when welding new metal to thin rusty stuff, it's only as strong as the old thin stuff. One of the problems with the MIG is that the weld is very hard compared to the parent steel so it takes some patience grinding the welds so as not to go through the old metal.

 

[23crate]

ok,, heres a trick an old fella taught me during my apprenticeship....,

I have a chunk of copper ( size is around 1' by 2,1/2's ) from an old engineers/ mechanics mallet ...

the idea is .. hold the copper chunk behind the rusty nasty pitted bits,, and quietly tack up your holes... its very effective allows a reasonable tidy finish..

you will need to clean the rear of the panel to help the earth circuit for the mig. Basically allows you to fill the holes tacking them around the edge with little or no holes blowing out.

Oh yeah a bucket of cold water is a good idea.... that copper gets a bit 'warm' and a splash every once in while is good...

Also a lot less heat is involved so less distortion / huge advantage is clean-up and there is no real adhesion to the copper

still requires a bit patience and practice . As previously mentioned . argon co2 is the best gas for this process.. seriously consider some new metal for the bigger holes.. it will some added strength which my be beneficial and reduce mig wire costs ....

crate

 

[Thefarmboy21]

Well I'm a little less concerned now.....I started hacking the bed apart this morning with my "whizzy wheel" and the sheetmetal on the bed that was just rusty, but not the cancer spots, was 1/16" thick! So to be rusty metal and still thicker than any sheetmetal I've welded on any other cars from the 60's to present is pretty comforting. I knew these things were built to be tough but thats pretty thick! I just hoot the metal on the cab as fenders is as thick.

 

[sgtpontiac]

Sounds promising.....

Well I'm a little less concerned now.....I started hacking the bed apart this morning with my "whizzy wheel" and the sheetmetal on the bed that was just rusty, but not the cancer spots, was 1/16" thick! So to be rusty metal and still thicker than any sheetmetal I've welded on any other cars from the 60's to present is pretty comforting. I knew these things were built to be tough but thats pretty thick! I just hoot the metal on the cab as fenders is as thick.

Hope it works out that the rest is the same....we'll be waiting for some in process pic's.....[P

 

[jmlcolorado]

I appreciate all the input fellas, but I wot be talked out of it.

Now THATS what we like to hear!
Don't let the project wear you down. As you can tell by my long and painful build thread, I've stepped away more than a few times, always working on getting back to it. Chew away one bit at a time. If something gets you down, work on something else for a while. There is ALWAYS something you can work on.

ok,, heres a trick an old fella taught me during my apprenticeship....,

I have a chunk of copper ( size is around 1' by 2,1/2's ) from an old engineers/ mechanics mallet ...

the idea is .. hold the copper chunk behind the rusty nasty pitted bits,, and quietly tack up your holes... its very effective allows a reasonable tidy finish..

you will need to clean the rear of the panel to help the earth circuit for the mig. Basically allows you to fill the holes tacking them around the edge with little or no holes blowing out.

Oh yeah a bucket of cold water is a good idea.... that copper gets a bit 'warm' and a splash every once in while is good...

Also a lot less heat is involved so less distortion / huge advantage is clean-up and there is no real adhesion to the copper

still requires a bit patience and practice . As previously mentioned . argon co2 is the best gas for this process.. seriously consider some new metal for the bigger holes.. it will some added strength which my be beneficial and reduce mig wire costs ....

crate

Ive used this frequently! Sometimes a copper tube flattened out and bent to a 45* angle works well too. I did this when I filled all the holes in the firewall of mine. I also used the "knockouts" from metal electrical boxes as backing then filled the hole with weld slowly. Inside the cab I kinda funny looking now

Well I'm a little less concerned now.....I started hacking the bed apart this morning with my "whizzy wheel" and the sheetmetal on the bed that was just rusty, but not the cancer spots, was 1/16" thick! So to be rusty metal and still thicker than any sheetmetal I've welded on any other cars from the 60's to present is pretty comforting. I knew these things were built to be tough but thats pretty thick! I just hoot the metal on the cab as fenders is as thick.

The bed is built with some serious steel! The body is not nearly as thick. Is say try your hand at building patch panels for the lower sections of the doors. Or.......why even bother repairing? It is a rat rod anyhow right?