What's it mean?

[Willowbilly3]

Terms that get thrown around and misused:
"Numbers Matching" car.
I don't think most of the people who use this even know what it means, not sure I do either. But if you were going to match every part with correct build dates you would have to dismantle the car, correct?

 

[Stroker McGurk]

If the car has never been touched, no..But how do you know its never been touched?......If parts have been replaced, I guess you would have to research each part. Personally, I think the numbers matching thing is a pile of crap, so that some people can say their car is worth more.

 

[Todd]

On the Dodge I'm doing, the Ranger chassis numbers, engine numbers, transmission numbers all match the numbers on the title. To me that is numbers matching.

 

[Torch]

In the most extreme context it means all the casting numbers and parts numbers are correct for the restoration meaning they are the actual authentic factory or factory replacement parts that were installed on that model when new.
I don't care about matching numbers.
I don't want a car with good taste I want a car that tastes good
matching numbers really only matters if:
1) The car is rare
2) The car is a special model
3) The car is in high demand by collectors and has great investment value
In some cases an unrestored original in fair condition with matching numbers may be worth significantly more than a fully restored gem

The worst case of unmatching numbers for example would be a Mustang my friend bought with 3 different VIN numbers throughout the car...

Nobody cares if a ford pinto or an amc marlin has matching numbers except for the occasional wierdo lol

I'm waiting for "That Guy" to give me grief for turning my ratty old decrepit 63 skylark special into a 1960's drag car replica... showroom cherry versions of my car with top options and in a convertible model only sell for $6,000 to $8,000 so who cares right?
it's probably going to be some guy who expects you to spend 10 years and $100,000 doing a car "right" that he wouldn't want to spend $6,000 on and then he's going to die some day and no-one else will care
Some people are weird
Or dumb
Or both XDDDDDDDDDDDDD

 

[Torch]

The numbers matching Homer car worth billions

 

[Torch]

I forgot the used car salesman in the plaid sports jacket trying to find more ways to talk something up

 

[Old Iron]

In a lot of cases, the person says that assuming the engine, tranny and rear end are all original to the vehicle.
To a restorer, these vehicles will bring a higher price if the components are original.
For instance, I have a 66 Buick GS that I bought from the original owner and can verify that all the components are original to the car.

 

[Blue Eyed Devil]

I put about as much faith in it as "ran when parked"...

 

[GJunktionMike]

On the Dodge I'm doing, the Ranger chassis numbers, engine numbers, transmission numbers all match the numbers on the title. To me that is numbers matching.

Yep Dodge was king at this, but they stamped a portion of the car vin number on the block and trans body so these parts are car specific. But it makes is easy to fake the numbers to match the car. Casting numbers are a little more broad, the number can be tracked as far as knowing what models the car part could go to, but not to just one car.

 

[Tripper]

A "Numbers Matching" car of course is supposed to be a car that has motor/tranny/rear... the original drive train that came in that car! But I've seen Barrett-Jackson say a car had an engine number that "would" have been appropriate for that model year car. I guess if the buyer's cool with it & you can get away with it... more power to ya. Never been one for that type of car & have modified, swapped motor/tranny/rear on most cars I've owned & definitely would never spend that kinda money for that especially since I believe cars are made to be driven.

Mecum just auctioned a '70 Hemi Cuda that only had 81 miles on it... krazzzzy! Guess I can understand he saved it as an investment but that's ridiculous IMO!!!

http://wot.motortrend.com/1504_1970_plymouth_hemi_cuda_with_just_81_original_miles_heading_to_auction.html

BoB

 

[Bamamav]

I wonder how long the odometer was unhooked on that Cuda while it was a drag car. I bet there are way more miles on it than what is showing.

As to the numbers matching thing, unless it's a high interest car like a big block Corvette, Chevelle or Camaro, or a big block low production car like a Hemi Cuda or Challenger or Dart, or a 429 SCJ Torino or Mustang, I don't think it really makes much difference to most people. Very few small block cars are special enough for it to matter except for maybe factory fuel injected cars from the 50'and 60's or cars owned by some celebrity. I agree with Tripper, most cars are modified in some way through the years, even dealers installed new factory engines under warranty sometimes. Lots of small block cars have been converted to big block cars, it doesn't seem to matter much on them.

I don't care if the numbers match myself, I just want everything to be right and have fun with them.

 

[Willowbilly3]

Oh I know how it gets thrown around but for different makes it could mean different things. I think on some models the best you can do is get production date codes on castings that would have conceivably left the plant on a car but even those wont all be real close since engines or transmissions might have sat in a warehouse a while before final assembly.
It's about like the seller saying the car has a new engine when what he really means is it was a slapped together rebuild or say an engine was rebuilt when it was just re-ringed and new rods and mains slapped in.
It could take hours, or even days to verify all numbers matching on a car.
And even if you got it from the original owner, whose to say it didn't get warranty work done and the original parts were long gone. A couple years ago I had a big Holley I was trying to decode the numers from and it wasn't making any sense at all. Come to find out it was a service replacement for a 425 horse 427 with a 1976 date code. That carb could have found it's way on your car at a dealership without you even realizing what happened, so you can't assume anything unless you have actually done the work and verified the numbers.

 

[Sam_Fear]

Numbers matching on old Fords is more of a joke. There really isn't much to match. Casting #'s can span decades and parts changed mid year. About all you can be sure of is if the drivetrain, trim package, and colors match the dataplate.

 

[Tripper]

I wonder how long the odometer was unhooked on that Cuda while it was a drag car.

Funny you should say that because I believe the car was owned by a guy that drag raced it for a couple of years then died with that small amt of miles on it & then someone else kept it as an investment! But disconnecting the speedo was pretty common on cars like that back in the day!

BoB

 

[Old Iron]

I worked at a Ford dealership in 73
I was working on a 72 Galaxy for some sort of engine problem. When I ran the numbers for a part I needed, the service manager came over to look at the car and it turned out it had a 68 engine in it from the factory.

 

[Sam_Fear]

When they say it's a numbers matching car, that means it's a "traditional" muscle car. I always thought numbers matching was more of a Chevy thing.

 

[Skip]

I know where there is a "numbers matching" Grabber Lime 71 Cougar GT with less that 90K on it. 351C-4V/C6/9". Just sayin'... Rarer than most Mustangs, and worth about half as much.

 

[21willys]

Some people take the "numbers matching" thing a little to serious.

A friend of mine inherited his grand fathers 66 ford galaxie. The car is nice from 50' but is junk once ya look at it up close. The frame is rotted out from under it from it sitting in a barn with dirt floors. The car has less then 100k but is a plain jane small block car. Nothing special about it. I found him a western frame that was spotless for $200!!. He didn't want the frame because his car would no longer be a numbers matching car if he changed the frame! so it still sits. You can't even drive it cause it's too dangerous. The body and interior are near perfect but the drivers side rail by the rocker panel is missing about 3' of it.

 

[23crate]

numbers matching,,,

a good phrase for double the market value...

seriously if the car is all original , as it was when it left the factory with all its original components - then it works -

if some turkey strangler has pulled the motor and chucked in the same for that make and model its numbers fit with in the yom then is still numbers matching... who would know ??

can it be phrase we can count on ? or a buyers guide to the authenticity of the vehicle..

BArn find is another one. so I found it in a barn after years of neglect.. great ! .. its original , prob need to spend big chunks of cash on it to drive it reliably ... your choice...

we can just enjoy them I say ... if you got it drive it .. don't hide it ... a PU then use it for that , but don't use a hearse for that thay may not work

10/4

over and out

 

[Bonehead]

I heard about a guy who had an RS/SS, and drag raced it. His deal was the original motor was in his garage, and the built motor was what he raced. He did that to preserve the numbers matching engine that belonged in the car.