F-2 Stang

Lots of variables in exhaust tone. Compression of the motor has alot to do with how much "bark" you get. More compresion the harder the bark will be at each cylinder pulse. Another is the size of the pipe and thickness of the pipe as well. Ever look at a flowmaster setup? thick wall pipe and a very heavy wall muffler. Sound echos down the pipe more. All of these things can be played with to sdjust the tone you want. A glass pack on an 8:1 305 is going to sound flat like a truck exhaust with a rust hole. Same muffler on an 11:1 355 is going to be loud and bark hard. Just my $.02

Thanks for the dimensions. Sounds like it should fit.

jfg455 said:

Lots of variables in exhaust tone. Compression of the motor has alot to do with how much "bark" you get. More compresion the harder the bark will be at each cylinder pulse. Another is the size of the pipe and thickness of the pipe as well. Ever look at a flowmaster setup? thick wall pipe and a very heavy wall muffler. Sound echos down the pipe more. All of these things can be played with to sdjust the tone you want. A glass pack on an 8:1 305 is going to sound flat like a truck exhaust with a rust hole. Same muffler on an 11:1 355 is going to be loud and bark hard. Just my $.02

Click to expand...

Well, basically I have an 8:1 302 and it pretty much sounds like a truck exhaust with a rust hole. I'll wait until I get it out of the shop and can get a few feet away and listen to it before I make any changes. Maybe it'll sound better.

Still didn't get to go for a drive.

Spent today tightening up the ball joints (which required making spacers so the cotter pins would lock the castle nuts), fitting the fuel sending unit (eliminating the big hole in the gas tank), bolting the bed sides on better than they were, and a lot of other little things. I got thinking that it would be a project killer to have a wheel or A arm fall off. Or have the radiator fall into the fan.

So, maybe tomorrow.

waiting for that ride! [dr

truckster said:

waiting for that ride! [dr

Click to expand...

Come by tomorrow - we'll take it. Ok if you sit on the floor? What the heck, I can find some bolts and put the other seat in.

hadn't checked the thread until now, so too late for today. Will call you

Well, I didn't get the first ride Friday. I could not get the clutch to release while the engine was running.

I used the Wilwood clutch slave 260-1333 which has a 7/8" bore, 1.38 stroke and a 5/16 rod. And the Wilwood recommended 260-1304 master with a 3/4" bore and 1.4" stroke. The forumla:
volume of master (Vm) = area of slave (As) x stroke (Ss) or Ss=Vm/As

The volume (pi x Rsquare x stroke) produced by the master: .375 x .375 x 3.14 x 1.4 = .618 would move the 7/8" bore (subtracting the rod area) (.437 x .437 x 3.14) - (.156 x .156 x 3.14) = .5996 - .0764 = .5232 divided by .618 = .97"

So, unless my math is in error, their combination only yields .97" of travel on the 1.38 stroke slave cylinder, which is not quite enough to release the clutch without dragging. After a couple discussions with the WW tech (who didn't understand the principle involved), I ordered a new master with a 1" bore.

This Wilwood combination has been around for many years. I'm having a problem thinking this is an error on their part, so if anyone can help me with the math I'd appreciate it. By the way, the actual measurements seems to confirm the math.

Has it set to long and the disk is just stuck to the flywheel?I know on my old tractor it will rust and stick but after it starts it will release just have to start it like its in gear.

Way too technical for this D/A but it seems almost an inch of travel would be more than enough to release the clutch. Or did I read this wrong?

Don't understand subtracting the volume of the rod. It isn't inside the fluid chamber of the slave, it is outside of the piston. By your math it looks like you didn't subtract the rod volume, even tho the narrative indicates you did. .5996 / .618 = 0.9702.

I went from a little different direction and calculated the volume of each at the stated length of travel (stroke) and got .6182 cu. in. for the MC and .8294 cu. in. for the SC.

the ratio is .74, times the length of travel stated on the SC of 1.38, gives a value of 1.0286 inches of travel on the SC.

Find it interesting (but not unusual) that their "tech" doesn't understand their own volumes/ratios/travel.

What stroke does the 1" MC have? Seems to me a 7/8" bore with 1.4 stoke would be the answer. Am I missing something? Or wasn't that an option? Bigger bore on the MC = stiffer pedal with less travel. Smaller bore on MC = softer pedal with more travel needed.

sneakysnake said:

Has it set to long and the disk is just stuck to the flywheel?I know on my old tractor it will rust and stick but after it starts it will release just have to start it like its in gear.

Click to expand...

The drive shaft turns by hand with the engine not running, clutch depressed and the tranny in gear. So it is almost releasing - needs about another 1/8" ?

The original mustang used a cable to actuate the clutch. I used the same mounting points as the cable. I am not sure, but I think Ford extended the clutch arm to get more leverage with the cable. I think that's why its a problem for me, but not a problem in most other applications.

truckster said:

Don't understand subtracting the volume of the rod. It isn't inside the fluid chamber of the slave, it is outside of the piston. By your math it looks like you didn't subtract the rod volume, even tho the narrative indicates you did. .5996 / .618 = 0.9702.

I went from a little different direction and calculated the volume of each at the stated length of travel (stroke) and got .6182 cu. in. for the MC and .8294 cu. in. for the SC.

the ratio is .74, times the length of travel stated on the SC of 1.38, gives a value of 1.0286 inches of travel on the SC.

Find it interesting (but not unusual) that their "tech" doesn't understand their own volumes/ratios/travel.

What stroke does the 1" MC have? Seems to me a 7/8" bore with 1.4 stoke would be the answer. Am I missing something? Or wasn't that an option?

Click to expand...

The rod diameter is subtracted because the port is on the rod side of the piston. which means the piston area is reduced by the rod diameter. I did the math for this post this am at 5:00 I may have goofed it up. I have gotten from .97 - 1.08 travel for the slave depending on my state of mind when I ran the numbers.

The 1" cylinder has a stroke of 1.2" I'm calcutating that I need less than 1" to get full stroke from the slave. This will help with the distance the pedal moves also. I was feeling like the clutch pedal travel was excessive.

Epic build, its like the Lamborghini of Rat Rods.

It sure feels like an Epic, a never ending epic.

Just so you all don't think I've been goofing off while I'm waiting for the new clutch master cylinder. Here's what I've been working on.

I got the roof shaped, cut and welded. I've done a little hammer and dolly work. I used a stripping disc and got off most of the paint and some of the rust. I got the Sliding Ragtop frame clamped; then bolted in place. There is a 3/4 box tube frame on the inside of the opening. Welded that in place.

I installed the tunnel panels (left off the front driver's side so I can work on the clutch). I made the seat belt brackets and got them installed.

I modified the Mustang shifter boot, made a bezel and got them installed. I spent about 30 minutes looking for the fourth screw - didn't find it.

Did some more hammer and dolly work on the roof - how good does it need to be? "Some people can't let them be rats." Earthman. I think this is where RAT ROD takes over.

man that thing looks great... the fit on the panels is awesome.. this is going to be one cool ride. I really like how you trimmed out the roof

First ride!

I got the new master clutch cylinder yesterday and got it plumbed today. The !" bore cylinder reduced the clutch stroke at the pedal by about 2" which makes it a lot more comfortable + it works.

Took it out for the first ride. I'm still scraping bugs off my teeth. What an attitude changer. I have been plugging away on this project for 14 months wondering if I'm making something I'll actually want to drive. What if's... have followed me continually. Then in about 30 seconds all the doubt is gone.

Sitting almost on the ground with a full view of the tires, carb linkage, fan and front suspension - tap the gas pedal get a deafening crack, the rear tires break loose and I'm still smiling. This thing is gonna be Fun.

Evaluation: Steering seemed positive and predictable. Didn't hit any bumps so I'm not sure about the suspension. Brake pedal moves a little further than I think it should, but didn't feel spongy (I'm going to bleed it one more time then adjust the linkage). Clutch issues seems to be gone. Acceleration was almost frightening. No gages - don't know if I'll have overheating issues. Exhause sounds great outside - but too loud.

By the way, are flames supposed to be coming out of the exhaust when you let off on the throttle? Never had an exhaust I could see before.

DJ3100 said:

By the way, are flames supposed to be coming out of the exhaust when you let off on the throttle? Never had an exhaust I could see before.

Click to expand...

Ever watch NASCAR?

the interior looks sexy for sure. You going to leave the tubes exposed and only have the "trim" be the panels? A little burp of fire when getting out of the gas and into a corner is cool! Good work!