'36 Chevy Sedan "The PackRat Rod"
- Thread starter RimSpoke
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MercuryMac
Builder Junky!
Hi RimSpoke. I have been dealing with all of those clutch, input shaft, adapter, and whining issues that you speak of. I thought I had covered all of the bases but I must have some 'runout', because all of the whining is not coming from me, alone. Would you have a suggestion on how to measure the faulty angle of the transmission so I could adjust that angle, easily? I made my own adapter out of the back of the bellhousing that originally came on the transmission.
You keep up the good work and the planning of things. I like watching your progress.
You keep up the good work and the planning of things. I like watching your progress.
christcrusader13
Zip-Tie Mechanic
lovin the build!
Oldrodder43
Well-known member
Man, you're taking fabrication to new limits---------
Excellent work, excellent detail, excellent work ethic. And yeah, I'll give you some of my laziness toooooo! NICE
Excellent work, excellent detail, excellent work ethic. And yeah, I'll give you some of my laziness toooooo! NICE
RimSpoke
Well-known member
Thanks for all the comments and encouragement. It goes a long way. [cl
Mac,
Sorry to hear about your challenges. I wish I were smart enough to give you some advice on measuring the force and direction of the misalignment once installed. It's hard to decipher without looking but unless your trans has internal issues, you're already aware that the whining you're hearing is most likely coming from some side-loading on the input shaft.
Not something you probably don't already know and slightly over simplified: Although they're directly inline, your transmission input and output shafts are two separate pieces with gears on them. There is another shaft alongside these two that also has gears on it that mesh with the input & output shaft gears. This shaft rotates counter to the main two shafts and is called - get this - the "countershaft".
Here's the problem, if you're side-loading the input shaft from even a little misalignment, it's gears are going to mesh too tightly with the countershaft (aka: insufficient backlash). Now you've got noise.
Remember, we're talking thousandths of an inch here so I would think the best way to correct it is either going to take some machining (surfacing) to square-up your existing bellhousing or get another.
Also, when I write "side loading", that reference is in relation to the axial rotation of the shaft, so it could be pressure improperly applied up, down, sideways, diagonal, etc,
' hope this helps.
Mac,
Sorry to hear about your challenges. I wish I were smart enough to give you some advice on measuring the force and direction of the misalignment once installed. It's hard to decipher without looking but unless your trans has internal issues, you're already aware that the whining you're hearing is most likely coming from some side-loading on the input shaft.
Not something you probably don't already know and slightly over simplified: Although they're directly inline, your transmission input and output shafts are two separate pieces with gears on them. There is another shaft alongside these two that also has gears on it that mesh with the input & output shaft gears. This shaft rotates counter to the main two shafts and is called - get this - the "countershaft".
Here's the problem, if you're side-loading the input shaft from even a little misalignment, it's gears are going to mesh too tightly with the countershaft (aka: insufficient backlash). Now you've got noise.
Remember, we're talking thousandths of an inch here so I would think the best way to correct it is either going to take some machining (surfacing) to square-up your existing bellhousing or get another.
Also, when I write "side loading", that reference is in relation to the axial rotation of the shaft, so it could be pressure improperly applied up, down, sideways, diagonal, etc,
' hope this helps.
RimSpoke
Well-known member
So once I knew where they needed to go exactly, I cut everything off some pieces of 1/4" plate that didn't look like motor mounts
and tacked them in place.
But I didn't like leaving everything on the original crossmember so I added the bellhousing mount from the ton-and-a-half that donated it's engine. Afterwards, I stripped-away most of the original (still shown in this image) leaving the pedal mount.
Here's what it all looked like tacked in place with the body, engine, and trans out of the way.
and tacked them in place.
But I didn't like leaving everything on the original crossmember so I added the bellhousing mount from the ton-and-a-half that donated it's engine. Afterwards, I stripped-away most of the original (still shown in this image) leaving the pedal mount.
Here's what it all looked like tacked in place with the body, engine, and trans out of the way.
RimSpoke
Well-known member
Then I started making gussets for the mounts
and set about welding them in
I planned to bend the back gussets between two of the holes to fit the contour of the mounting surface; but if I attempted to do it cold, they'd more-than-likely bend at the center of the holes since it's comparatively weaker there. I was out of O2 for the torch at the time, so the heat had to wait until I made a run.
Here's a look from the front:
and set about welding them in
I planned to bend the back gussets between two of the holes to fit the contour of the mounting surface; but if I attempted to do it cold, they'd more-than-likely bend at the center of the holes since it's comparatively weaker there. I was out of O2 for the torch at the time, so the heat had to wait until I made a run.
Here's a look from the front:
RimSpoke
Well-known member
I finished the underside of the motor mounts and it’s no mistake that the cross-piece between the front and rear gussets doesn’t meet the lower portion of the frame rail. The front shocks bolt through the frame right behind these and I’ll need to be able to get a nut and a wrench up through here when that time comes.
Previously I had picked-up some 7/8″ x .156″ DOM tubing to make a set of front radius rods. Tubing and pipe are different in that not only is pipe cast when manufactured making it a poor choice for a structural application, but it is measured at its I.D. since flow and capacity are the primary concern. Although the manufacturing processes vary (extrusion, cross rolling, or cold pilgering to name a few), tubing is measured at its O.D. DOM means the tube was Drawn Over Mandrel during the manufacturing process giving it consistent wall thickness and superior strength. The wall thickness and inside dimensions are more crucial when tapping/threading operations are being employed so DOM is the only way to go here.
Previously I had picked-up some 7/8″ x .156″ DOM tubing to make a set of front radius rods. Tubing and pipe are different in that not only is pipe cast when manufactured making it a poor choice for a structural application, but it is measured at its I.D. since flow and capacity are the primary concern. Although the manufacturing processes vary (extrusion, cross rolling, or cold pilgering to name a few), tubing is measured at its O.D. DOM means the tube was Drawn Over Mandrel during the manufacturing process giving it consistent wall thickness and superior strength. The wall thickness and inside dimensions are more crucial when tapping/threading operations are being employed so DOM is the only way to go here.
RimSpoke
Well-known member
Now to start setting up the front suspension to get the radius-rod mounting brackets properly located. With the frame still upside-down, I transferred a few dimensions from the front axle to a piece of 1″ square-box tube in white chalk. Since the brakes, backing plates, spindles and hubs are still on the front axle, it’s going to be a lot easier to move this piece of tubing around in small increments than it would be to use the real deal. “Easier” doesn’t necessarily translate into “better” but it does mean I don’t have to go through an undue fight to get an accurate placement.
I knew I wanted the bracket to go in the same location as the old spring hanger. The frame already kicks-up here because of the original suspension, so there’s already plenty of clearance for freedom of movement, but the bracket won’t hang down unnecessarily and cause ground-clearance issues. The original spring hangers were cast-iron and riveted in place. Having removed them, the first order of business was to reinforce the frame in the same locations with 1/4″ plate.
I knew I wanted the bracket to go in the same location as the old spring hanger. The frame already kicks-up here because of the original suspension, so there’s already plenty of clearance for freedom of movement, but the bracket won’t hang down unnecessarily and cause ground-clearance issues. The original spring hangers were cast-iron and riveted in place. Having removed them, the first order of business was to reinforce the frame in the same locations with 1/4″ plate.
RimSpoke
Well-known member
Reinforcing the frame for the rear bumper and hitch was just a matter of drilling holes in some 4″ x 4″ x 1/4″ plates. Since I’ll be using 1/2″ hardware, I stepped my way up from the small bit shown, which is a single-step bit itself.
Since the nut will be up inside the frame, you won’t be able to get a wrench on it. Welding it solid to the plate alleviates that concern. Do this times six. [
Drilling some corresponding holes in the underside of the frame allowed for the nuts to slip up into it. All that was left was to weld everything in place… and that’s done too.
I am done, done, done with the fabrication on the frame.
Since the nut will be up inside the frame, you won’t be able to get a wrench on it. Welding it solid to the plate alleviates that concern. Do this times six. [
Drilling some corresponding holes in the underside of the frame allowed for the nuts to slip up into it. All that was left was to weld everything in place… and that’s done too.
I am done, done, done with the fabrication on the frame.
RimSpoke
Well-known member
But here's one last shot of the motor mounts
Snake Farm
Ol school snake charmer!
Man I love this build! So many little subtle things that come together to make a cool piece of art. Loving the six banger and 4 spd too [cl You may have mentioned it before but are you going to use the artillery wheels?
Loving the six banger and 4 spd too [cl You may have mentioned it before but are you going to use the artillery wheels?
RimSpoke
Well-known member
I may not have mentioned it yet but that is the current plan. They're stock 17" x 4-1/2". They'll be a little thin for the rear so I'm considering having two widened. There's also the matter of dealing with the S-10 rear bolt pattern so I'm not 100% sure.
FWIW, the S-10 I used was 2WD. A 4WD rear is a couple of inches wider. There's no real clearance issues but it would've been nice to have the extra inch on each side. If I do have the wheels widened, I can also change the backspacing accordingly. Plenty of tire sizes are available.
We'll see what really pans out in the long run... after I get the body back on and such
FWIW, the S-10 I used was 2WD. A 4WD rear is a couple of inches wider. There's no real clearance issues but it would've been nice to have the extra inch on each side. If I do have the wheels widened, I can also change the backspacing accordingly. Plenty of tire sizes are available.
We'll see what really pans out in the long run... after I get the body back on and such
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RimSpoke
Well-known member
MercuryMac
Builder Junky!
Hello Rimspoke. My vote is to use the artillery wheels, too. They're period correct, make correct, and very cool.
I'm just catching up reading all of the guys build threads, after three months of grueling work, so I'm lurking and enjoying it. You do wonderful work.
Quite a while ago I asked you about mixing and matching transmissions, and never got back to you with my solution. I got a store bought adapter for a T-5 and mounted it, instead of the 4 speed Borg-Warner and home made adapter that I had in there. Sometimes I'm so cheap I shoot myself in the foot. I have not test driven the T-5 yet because winter set in, when I wasn't looking. There's a foot and a half of snow here and it was 30 below this morning.
I'm just catching up reading all of the guys build threads, after three months of grueling work, so I'm lurking and enjoying it. You do wonderful work.
Quite a while ago I asked you about mixing and matching transmissions, and never got back to you with my solution. I got a store bought adapter for a T-5 and mounted it, instead of the 4 speed Borg-Warner and home made adapter that I had in there. Sometimes I'm so cheap I shoot myself in the foot. I have not test driven the T-5 yet because winter set in, when I wasn't looking. There's a foot and a half of snow here and it was 30 below this morning.
rex1927
Well-known member
Nice project
30 Below
Glad I live on South Carolina coast.Short sleeve weather here today.
30 Below
Glad I live on South Carolina coast.Short sleeve weather here today.
endicott_jb
Well-known member
30 below ain't that bad, it's the wind chill that drops it down to 60 below that's really painful.
RimSpoke
Well-known member
Since my last update, I tore into the rear to check the brakes and the condition of the gears. Upon doing so the main retaining pin broke, leaving its lower half in the depths of the differential with no way to get a drill straight at it and no way to remove the carrier without first removing the lower half of the stuck pin... A regular Catch 22:
The quick solution would be to screw the upper half of the bolt back in to prevent the broken piece from backing out of the hole. It took some time and effort, but eventually I got it out.
Then I cut the rear spring perches loose from the axle tube to allow the pinion angle to rotate and match the angle of the transmission output shaft. Once I get the engine and trans bolted into place, I’ll be able to determine exactly at what angle the pinion needs to be to avoid driveshaft vibrations. Once accomplished, I’ll weld the pads back onto the tubes and bolt the rear back in.
The quick solution would be to screw the upper half of the bolt back in to prevent the broken piece from backing out of the hole. It took some time and effort, but eventually I got it out.
Then I cut the rear spring perches loose from the axle tube to allow the pinion angle to rotate and match the angle of the transmission output shaft. Once I get the engine and trans bolted into place, I’ll be able to determine exactly at what angle the pinion needs to be to avoid driveshaft vibrations. Once accomplished, I’ll weld the pads back onto the tubes and bolt the rear back in.
RimSpoke
Well-known member
Up front I took some 3/8″ plate and began fabricating the radius rod mounts. This axle was originally set under parallel front leaf springs so there’s already a flat mounting surface with bolt holes on each side. The first piece of plate was drilled for 1/2″ bolts to secure it to the axle. The second plate will be the mount for the front rod ends and will get welded to the base plate. Making the base plate alleviates welding to the cast axle.
Having limited resources, the most expedient method of shaping something this thick involved some creative use of the chop saw. Finish grinding and sanding followed. The top of the front notch is what gets welded to the baseplate. The rear two holes are for the upper and lower radius rod clevis bolts.
Since there’s some triangulation involved, I mocked-up the rods with a couple of bolts through the front clevises and set them at the ball joint mounting brackets.
For the leafspring, I purchased a short length of 1.25″ x .281″ wall DOM tubing to make shackle brackets. Like the radius rod brackets, these will get welded to the base plate.
Having limited resources, the most expedient method of shaping something this thick involved some creative use of the chop saw. Finish grinding and sanding followed. The top of the front notch is what gets welded to the baseplate. The rear two holes are for the upper and lower radius rod clevis bolts.
Since there’s some triangulation involved, I mocked-up the rods with a couple of bolts through the front clevises and set them at the ball joint mounting brackets.
For the leafspring, I purchased a short length of 1.25″ x .281″ wall DOM tubing to make shackle brackets. Like the radius rod brackets, these will get welded to the base plate.
animal
Well-known member
Nice job on the hairpin mounts! I'm fiddling with the front axle mounts on my coupe, so this really caught my attention. I'll by keeping up with this build....hopefully we'll run into each other somewhere here in Colorado.
