Saved From The Rock Pile

[rustybeercan]

Is everyone looking at the same pics that i am? The radius rods are made of 1.5" rebar, how many of you guys that are saying rebar isnt strong have tried to bend a piece of 1.5"?

As i stated previously, anyone who thinks 1.5 in rebar bends easy hasn't actually tried to bend a piece. It isn't .5" its 1.5".

Most rebar is not considered a weldable alloy. (Although I have done it to make non-critical items like plant holders for the wife. ). Like BED and others have mentioned, it is prone to breakage at the weld.

How easily rebar bends is not really the question here. I think Dr. Crank hit it on the head, I would never trust a weld on rebar for such an important component! That being said, I doubt we'll be hearing from Sugargoat again since he probably feels he was ganged up on! Some people have to learn the very hard way!

Beercan

 

[jmlcolorado]

Not to beat a dead horse here, but i agree with everyone above.

Please don't take our criticism negatively! Everyone here is just looking out for the safety of you and all others on the road around you.

At one time, i thought metal was metal too, till i was educated differently. I have used rebar myself, but it was just to install temp bracing and was removed upon completion of the said project.

Heck, if it were me, i would redesign the steering and suspension components with the correct stuff just to keep everyone off my tail

Otherwise, i dig the build! I really like the diamond plate mirror and headlight buckets.
You have a great vision!

 

[supergoatsack]

Do some research. There is weldable rebar. You just have to request it. I'm a machinist at a shop that does fab work also. If you do your homework almost anything can be welded safely! I'll be doing some more destruction testing soon. So I will know the pressures needed to cause failure. We do tests like that at work all the time. Thanks for your concern, but I'm not some backyard hack with no metal fabrication knowledge.

 

[Blue Eyed Devil]

Actually you are correct, there is weldable rebar. It is referred to as 706 steel and it is identified by a W stamped in the deformations of the reinforcing bar. Where is your W? Also, did you preheat it? From the looks of the fresh weld next to rusty rebar I would say no. If the welds were done cold they will be brittle and unacceptable, especially in cases of fatigue or impact loadings.

But really that is all neither here nor there, because even "weldable" rebar is meant to be welded before it is BURIED IN CONCRETE - not hung out in the open on the front of a moving vehicle holding vital suspension & steering components subjected years of time and thousands of miles of brutal road stress that is impossible to duplicate from a static destruction test.

Look, nobody here is telling you not to do your own thing - far from it. We all have likes and dislikes, but that's not the case here. The number one thing we all should be concerned with regardless of our taste in vehicles is that they are reliable going down the road. The fact is rebar is not a reliable material for use in suspension components. Sure, any material can fail under the right circumstances but why predispose yourself to a catastrophic failure? It's not a flat tire or a shredded differential. It's a end-over-end disaster that isn't going to fare well for you or god forbid anyone else in your path. Just keep that in mind. I'm not going to argue this point any longer as there is nothing to prove. You are obviously a intelligent person, so just think about it for a while. I do hope you reconsider your choice in materials.

I have said my peace. Good luck with your build...

 

[RAT FINK]

Actually you are correct, there is weldable rebar. It is referred to as 706 steel and it is identified by a W stamped in the deformations of the reinforcing bar. Where is your W? Also, did you preheat it? From the looks of the fresh weld next to rusty rebar I would say no. If the welds were done cold they will be brittle and unacceptable, especially in cases of fatigue or impact loadings.

But really that is all neither here nor there, because even "weldable" rebar is meant to be welded before it is BURIED IN CONCRETE - not hung out in the open on the front of a moving vehicle holding vital suspension & steering components subjected years of time and thousands of miles of brutal road stress that is impossible to duplicate from a static destruction test.

Look, nobody here is telling you not to do your own thing - far from it. We all have likes and dislikes, but that's not the case here. The number one thing we all should be concerned with regardless of our taste in vehicles is that they are reliable going down the road. The fact is rebar is not a reliable material for use in suspension components. Sure, any material can fail under the right circumstances but why predispose yourself to a catastrophic failure? It's not a flat tire or a shredded differential. It's a end-over-end disaster that isn't going to fare well for you or god forbid anyone else in your path. Just keep that in mind. I'm not going to argue this point any longer as there is nothing to prove. You are obviously a intelligent person, so just think about it for a while. I do hope you reconsider your choice in materials.

I have said my peace. Good luck with your build...

AHMEN!!!!!![cl[cl[cl

 

[supergoatsack]

I did more testing like was asked. Welded end of rebar to a piece of square tube and put in press as a upside down V and bent it to a 90 with no breakage. Also welded three pieces together like the ends of radius arms. It took 36 tons of pressure to break the weld. The rebar started to mushroom & bend before the weld let go. The weld did not rip loose from the rebar, both pieces had weld on them, just tore the weld itself. I understand all of your concern. I just did not go with these materials without doing testing that made me feel well beyond safe to take my wife & children in this vehicle! We have had crazy things happen at work with commonly welded materials & materials that just had machining done that failed due to material lamination, craters, & fractures. We had a huge order of structural pipe for a pipeline fail the UT test after welding due to cracks along every weld. We had a 20' piece of 4350 chromoly used for axle shafts fail under light loads, after UT testing the rest of the unused material it was full of stress fractures along the whole length. Some costumers are now requiring only USA made steel. Check out this pipe!!

 

[Let's Boogie]

Is that street stop lights you used for taillights or bus lights? Really kewl idea there. Also gotta love those Predator Carbs. I will be using 1 for my build.
Great Looking car and ideas.

 

[supergoatsack]

Street lamp lenses.

 

[hansgoudzwaard]

Great result. I like the driveshaft header pipes.

I worked in the province of Saskatchewan for the last few years. Many relics are sitting rotting in barnyards and fields.

 

[jmpowie]

Do some research. Thanks for your concern, but I'm not some backyard hack with no metal fabrication knowledge.

Your using rebar on suspension, maybe you dont know what you think you know. Rebar is something a back yard hack would use.

 

[andyspinstriping]

This thing is pretty cool! Very imaginative build!!!

 

[supergoatsack]

Finished up the headlights, and labelled the brake & gas pedals.

 

[Rev Tex Devlle]

your test on the material seem impressive and to your point and evidence to it , just wondering what the professional critics have to say about the test, cool looking truck buy the way!

i think really this the question should have been ,, what was your reasoning to the use of the rebar,, instead of telling you , it was wrong, then you could have presented your cause, and showed test you preformed to give you the competent reason for the use,, also you could have provide the background of your expertise,, and those who choose to differ with you , could give their test results, and expertise in this area,, and then a all the facts would be out there! pros and cons! i could easily see the comments coming to a H.A.M.B. conversation!! saddens me that this forum is becoming like that site becuz of a few ! but what do i know,, im just a back yard hack!

 

[Blue Eyed Devil]

years of time and thousands of miles of brutal road stress is impossible to duplicate from a static destruction test.

I'm not going to argue this point any longer as there is nothing to prove. You are obviously a intelligent person, so just think about it for a while. I do hope you reconsider your choice in materials.

I already said it. Static tests do NOT represent time, road wear or impact load. Even most "backyard" guys know that rebar is for reinforcing concrete, not building vehicle suspension components. Some people just cannot be reasoned with however, so I have nothing further to say on this subject. I wished him luck and I mean it. I hope it doesn't fail, and certainly not at the expense of an innocent person. But what do I know? I'm just a hot rod guy...

 

[cornfield customs]

some times you have to choose your battles. i chose to bow out on my opinion. i feel in my professional opinion rebar of any sort should never be used in structural ( frame, suspension, steering) components on a car. the only way i would even remotely think it is acceptable would be to see a structural engineers report and testing on it in automotive use, and a report from a metallurgical engineer. there is a reason the hot rod/ rat rod aftermarket companies do not offer parts made from rebar, and i dont feel it is because they have never thought about it. it is because it is the wrong material.

you can think we are acting like we are the HAMB board, but when you are a professional hot rod builder it is hard to sit by and watch others building things that are unsafe and look poorly on the hot rod industry as a hole. if there is a failure of home made parts and people are injured or killed, it becomes harder on the entire industry, especially the smaller hot rod shops.

you show tests from multiple engineers in the fields i listed above, and i will recant my statement of this being unsafe. until then one bending test is not going to change my opinion

 

[Rev Tex Devlle]

anyone ever bought a china made part? and it broke? i aint trying to start a fight i just think theres a few on here who more about attacking this guy work ,, instead of constructive criticism ,, i would build anything that i would ride my own family in, or sell to someone!! i know your work,, , as a matter of fact trying to trade on a cornfield now, if i was to find something i found questionable, i wouldnt do in a public forum, i would contact you privately!! Etiquette goes a long way with people even if you dont agree! just the opinion of a back yard hack! now i bow out ,, Super sorry i hijacked your thread i apologize. RTD

 

[Blue Eyed Devil]

it is hard to sit by and watch others building things that are unsafe and look poorly on the hot rod industry as a hole. if there is a failure of home made parts and people are injured or killed, it becomes harder on the entire industry, especially the smaller hot rod shops.

Very well said. Look guys, it's not just the industry. Stuff like this reflects back on hot rodding as a whole, every single one of us. It only fuels the fire for those who would like to see hot rods as a thing of the past and all of us driving a new eco-friendly Prius hybrid. As far as the Chinese parts, I highly advise not using those either. Know why? Because it's crappy steel - Just like rebar! Regardless I said it before - Any part can fail, just don't knowingly predispose yourself to a bad situation. Would you build a roll cage for your race car out of rebar? And if you did would it pass tech? Come on - Just don't use questionable materials for things they are not intended, especially critical components - not that hard.

Nowhere in the thread did anyone attack the actual work being done. That is a matter of taste, which we all have our own. The quality of the welds is not in question either. As a matter of fact almost every comment was positive. The only thing addressed was the choice of base materials (rebar), which IS a safety issue, whether you want to agree with it or not. As far as being in a public forum, the OP put it out there for the public to see. It wasn't as though someone else posted the build thread. A serious safety issue was pointed out by more than a few guys who know a thing or two about building cars, and that's it. No one put down the OP or the build and they didn't come over to the house and kick his dog. It was a simple observation of a blatant safety issue and nothing more. No need for any panty-bunching. As I said before, arguing this is a mute point. I was hoping it wasn't necessary, but here ya go fellas...

 

[supergoatsack]

I'm still waiting for their tests and/or experience of rebar failing. Do any of you have test or proof or just going by hearsay? I get told at work all the time we can't do that or it can't be done, when I'm done & it passes or works I just ask them what else can't we do? Scrap yards around here will not buy used rebar with concrete on it but will buy drops that are clean by the truckloads. If we all believed everything told to us without testing or proof we would never get new innovative ideas(not saying I'm being innovative), just the same old same old. I was told a ton of times I could not put a Mopar 440 in a Honda Civic & if I did it would be a death trap! It's done & drive/launches straight. It runs low 11's in the 1/4 and 125+ mph, drives like a dream. It was not all that long ago it was said that aluminium could not be used for heads, connecting rods, or rocker arms. Now they are the norm! Used by factories & racers making huge power & stress!

 

[supergoatsack]

A few more pics

 

[Blue Eyed Devil]

BTW, I don't believe anyone tested the failure of using an anvil for ballast in a barrel in 1920 either. They told Englishman Charles G. Stephens it probably wasn't a good idea, but who would be daunted by that? Encouraged by the fact that no one physically proved to him that it would fail, he equipped his wooden barrel with that same anvil for ballast. Charles then tied himself to the anvil for extra security. After all he was concerned first and foremost with safety. After the plunge, his right arm was the only item left in the barrel. Here's to being innovative Chuck. Damn the torpedos...