MercuryMac
Builder Junky!
Oh, ----- I never thought of having to kiss princesses. Hmmmm.
Good thing one of us is thinkin' ahead.
Good thing one of us is thinkin' ahead.
'34 Dodge Brothers, double build.
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MercuryMac
Builder Junky!
Anyhow, I got back to work, ----- on the Dodge Brothers truck. Yesterday I pulled the rear-end out and the back half of the springs. The spring bushings are really worn out all around, so that will take some fixing up. The second picture is the truck sitting back on the rack. It had been pushed outside for quite a while so it could be neglected properly.
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MercuryMac
Builder Junky!
MercuryMac
Builder Junky!
The Dart rear-end has been redone in its recent past as the brakes weren't that worn, but every thing was rusty so I'm putting in new stuff so I can pass my 'out-of-province' inspection when the time comes. The stud bolt pattern is unique on this rear-end as it's 5 on 4 1/8". That makes buying new parts really hard, and mounting the old 'era correct' wheels is even harder. Anyhow, [pic one] is the rear brakes ripped apart. Pic two is the new shoes on one side.
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bob w
Still crazy after all these years!
Looking good, Mac.
gene49
Well-known member
The "official" bolt pattern for that era Dodge Dart is called a 5 on 4" bolt pattern. That will help with a wheel search.
It was limited to Mopar "A" body cars from around 1962 up to being phased out starting with the 1973 model year. The 6 cylinder "A" body cars did get that 5 on 4" bolt pattern up to 1976 in cars that got the smaller 7 1/4" rear end.
The rear ends that came with the 5 on 4" bolt pattern were a 7 1/4" rear, an 8 1/4 rear (both with rear covers) and an 8 3/4 with the drop out center section. All 3 of those rear ends were also produced with the larger 5 on 4 1/2" bolt pattern, but I do not believe the rear axle shafts could be swapped between the two bolt pattern wheels.
There were some aftermarket wheels produced along with some "factory mag" wheels with that 5 on 4" bolt pattern, but those are very limited. Mopar produced wheels with the 5 on 4" pattern in 13", 14", and very few with 15" wheel/tire sizes.
It was limited to Mopar "A" body cars from around 1962 up to being phased out starting with the 1973 model year. The 6 cylinder "A" body cars did get that 5 on 4" bolt pattern up to 1976 in cars that got the smaller 7 1/4" rear end.
The rear ends that came with the 5 on 4" bolt pattern were a 7 1/4" rear, an 8 1/4 rear (both with rear covers) and an 8 3/4 with the drop out center section. All 3 of those rear ends were also produced with the larger 5 on 4 1/2" bolt pattern, but I do not believe the rear axle shafts could be swapped between the two bolt pattern wheels.
There were some aftermarket wheels produced along with some "factory mag" wheels with that 5 on 4" bolt pattern, but those are very limited. Mopar produced wheels with the 5 on 4" pattern in 13", 14", and very few with 15" wheel/tire sizes.
MercuryMac
Builder Junky!
Thanks, Gene, I did a Google search finally and found out some of the stuff that you said. I have some 17" Dodge wire wheels that are sandblasted and painted with new tires mounted ready to put on there. They have a 5x4 1/2" bolt pattern.
Anyhow, I put the brake shoes and hardware in the other side now, and the new brake drums are at the parts store. They promised the drums would work.
Anyhow, I put the brake shoes and hardware in the other side now, and the new brake drums are at the parts store. They promised the drums would work.
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MercuryMac
Builder Junky!
My search for those 5 X 4" brake drums was frustrating and fruitless. So, yesterday I thought, 'maybe I should go to an inspector and get him to measure the drums that I do have, to see if they are viable and will pass a future inspection'.
They passed, so I have two good drums that fit my axles.
I took the front end of the back springs out of the truck to get started re-bushing them.
They passed, so I have two good drums that fit my axles.
I took the front end of the back springs out of the truck to get started re-bushing them.
gene49
Well-known member
At one time, someone made 1" thick forged aluminum wheel adapters that went from the 5 on 4" bolt pattern axles to a 5 on 4 1/2" wheel mounting surface. Don't know if they are still available, but then you could use the 4 1/2" bolt pattern wheels you already have.
Some of the original axles could be re-drilled to the 4 1/2" bolt pattern, but those axle shafts didn't have large unused holes in the flanges like it looks like your axles have.
Some of the original axles could be re-drilled to the 4 1/2" bolt pattern, but those axle shafts didn't have large unused holes in the flanges like it looks like your axles have.
Old Iron
Well-known member
These people are good friends of mine.
https://cmgearworks.com/
We just got done doing the swap you're wanting to do.
We called them up and they had the 5 on 4-1/2 axles, green bearings and all in stock.
By the way, we make a disc brake bolt on kit for this application. Complete with calipers, pads and hoses. We can furnish the rotors but, they are heavy and cost a little to ship. We give you the part number that can be bought at your local parts store in fact, all the parts, except the brackets, can be bought off the shelf. These will also work with 15" wheels.
We also make kits for 9" Fords and GM 10 and 12 bolt rears.
We can virtually make a kit for just about any application you have.
https://cmgearworks.com/
We just got done doing the swap you're wanting to do.
We called them up and they had the 5 on 4-1/2 axles, green bearings and all in stock.
By the way, we make a disc brake bolt on kit for this application. Complete with calipers, pads and hoses. We can furnish the rotors but, they are heavy and cost a little to ship. We give you the part number that can be bought at your local parts store in fact, all the parts, except the brackets, can be bought off the shelf. These will also work with 15" wheels.
We also make kits for 9" Fords and GM 10 and 12 bolt rears.
We can virtually make a kit for just about any application you have.
MercuryMac
Builder Junky!
Yes Gene, they are still available and I bought them. The only downfall of using the adapters is that the wheels are going to be a little farther out in the fenders than stock placement. About and inch and a half on each side.
Thanks OI. I'm going through their listings now.
Today, I mounted my cleaned up brake drum, the adapter and the old wheel. The adapter was trued up and then the wheel, so it should run down the highway decently.
Thanks OI. I'm going through their listings now.
Today, I mounted my cleaned up brake drum, the adapter and the old wheel. The adapter was trued up and then the wheel, so it should run down the highway decently.
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MercuryMac
Builder Junky!
OI, I thought about putting disc brakes on the back but with 1934 drum brakes on the front, they would be unbalanced badly.
This unit is going to be a ratrod. Not only that, I specialize in spending a lot of time and effort making things look like I never touched them. Disc brakes on the back only would raise some questions.
This unit is going to be a ratrod. Not only that, I specialize in spending a lot of time and effort making things look like I never touched them. Disc brakes on the back only would raise some questions.
Old Iron
Well-known member
That's true
gene49
Well-known member
Happy to hear things are working out for you.
Also sort of happy to hear some of the weird problem solver stuff from the 1960s and 1970s is still available, even if I might never use it again.
Also sort of happy to hear some of the weird problem solver stuff from the 1960s and 1970s is still available, even if I might never use it again.
MercuryMac
Builder Junky!
OI and Gene, I thought about re-drilling stud holes in the old axle flanges, but they are too small [OD] and full of needless holes to put five more holes in them. New axles with the right bolt pattern and some corresponding drums would have been nice, though.
Thanks for all of the suggestions.
Thanks for all of the suggestions.
MercuryMac
Builder Junky!
Today I bored new spring centre bolt holes in the spring perches. The truck springs are very narrow and also one inch closer together than the Dodge Dart ones. Luckily the perches were fairly wide. One U-bolt on each side also has to be re-routed. That is done too.
I'm taking the heavy duty spring pack apart to remove a few leaves. The PO beefed up the rear springs so he could haul rocks off of his fields.
I'm taking the heavy duty spring pack apart to remove a few leaves. The PO beefed up the rear springs so he could haul rocks off of his fields.
Old Iron
Well-known member
[P[P[P
MercuryMac
Builder Junky!
The next job was to repair the front spring hangers on the back springs. They were worn badly. I was not looking forward to this job.
It was worse than I expected. I changed my welder to stick weld from MIG for the first time and had to learn where the settings should be, consequently, I messed up the first try. The bolt that had held the front bushing in the spring hanger had been dancing up and down for sixty years and had worn the hanger holes extremely large. I cannot remove the hangers, so I was going to weld up both sides of the hanger by reaching through the hole in the running board apron and then through the outside hanger hole and weld the inside hanger hole up. Repeat this on the outside hanger hole and then bore the hole back out to 9/16" and call it good. [It's like when the brain surgeon fixes your brain up by going up through your nose so he doesn't put scars on your face].
One side is now welded up, but I ended up having to take the running board off. No pictures of the hillbilly mess, but when I get it cleaned up and polished, I'll take a picture.
It was worse than I expected. I changed my welder to stick weld from MIG for the first time and had to learn where the settings should be, consequently, I messed up the first try. The bolt that had held the front bushing in the spring hanger had been dancing up and down for sixty years and had worn the hanger holes extremely large. I cannot remove the hangers, so I was going to weld up both sides of the hanger by reaching through the hole in the running board apron and then through the outside hanger hole and weld the inside hanger hole up. Repeat this on the outside hanger hole and then bore the hole back out to 9/16" and call it good. [It's like when the brain surgeon fixes your brain up by going up through your nose so he doesn't put scars on your face].
One side is now welded up, but I ended up having to take the running board off. No pictures of the hillbilly mess, but when I get it cleaned up and polished, I'll take a picture.
MercuryMac
Builder Junky!
It turns out that I couldn't polish up my crazy welding that good, but here's a picture of the cleaned up bushing mount hole. The second picture has a line around the patch that I made and welded into the hanger. The third picture is pulling the old bushing out of the spring.
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DozerII
Well-known member
Nice job MM, it is incredideble how worn out those old hangers and bushings would get.
