Am I right or wrong?

[Blue Eyed Devil]

I think you have to face facts, this is a global market any more, and products are made other places, and our products go over there too. Just the way it is.

I'm going to have a rare disagreement with you there Don. The global market reasoning is absurd. The reason products are made other places is because the American people allow it to happen. Laziness, greed and apathy cannot be excused by calling it a global market. While it may currently be "the way it is", that is no excuse to not change it. If things like this are not brought to light we cannot expect to grow as or retain any shred of sovereignty as a nation.

While I don't necessarily agree with taking the flags without immediately replacing them, I do know that as a Veteran I would be none too happy about a Chinese flag placed above my grave, whether it "looked" like an American flag or not. Those men dedicated to their lives to the welfare of Americans, and to place a flag over their body made by an enemy of this nation is pretty disrespectful. I am going to hope that whoever did it was unaware of the flag's origin of manufacture, but that just goes to show how diligent we the people need to be. This is OUR country, and unless we are proactive in it's defense then we are only sentencing ourselves to a "global market".

No hard feeling here, just a different perspective. End rant...

 

[bob w]

Since this became an editorial Thread...

Like it or not, we are in a global market. It is not entirely our fault. Other countries have resources that give them an advantage. Cheap labor, raw materials, lax regulations and so on. The ability to ship low value goods worldwide quickly and economically is a factor too.
Now, we find ourselves in a situation where many products cannot be sourced in America. Not many of those industries are coming back no matter how much ranting happens. The industries that do come back will not resemble the ones that left. Use of labor will be minimized and the impact on job growth will not be significant.

I worked a bit in Southeast Asia and Northern Europe in the mid-70's and saw all this coming. Japan lost production to the hated Koreans. Hong Kong and Taiwan lost to China. Germany lost to Ireland. And America lost to all of them, Mexico and countless others.

Alas, the real villain here might be our own brains. We have created technologies that are rapidly reducing the need for both physical and intellectual human labor. In the next decades the world will be plagued with a massively excessive labor force, with nothing to do but foment anger and violence. When will we hit the tipping point? What's next? I hope there's some think tanks working on the problems The politicians aren't capable of solving them.

BED, I agree with your sentiment 100%. The country should have never fallen this far. But, here we are. Tell you what, you start a Memorial Flag factory in Ohio and I'll buy the first $1,000 worth of flags.

Bless all our fallen servicemen and women. And a humble "Thank You" to our veterans and those that are now serving.

 

[Blue Eyed Devil]

BED, I agree with your sentiment 100%. The country should have never fallen this far. But, here we are. Tell you what, you start a Memorial Flag factory in Ohio and I'll buy the first $1,000 worth of flags.

Bless all our fallen servicemen and women. And a humble "Thank You" to our veterans and those that are now serving.

No need for me to start it. Annin Flagmakers is the oldest and largest flag manufacturer in the United States. They are located in Coshocton, Ohio and employ over 150 people. Their flags are not only made here in Ohio, but are produced from 100% American made materials. I am sure they would appreciate that $1000 worth of business, as well as the families of those fallen servicemen and women. Can they count on it?

 

[bob w]

No need for me to start it. Annin Flagmakers is the oldest and largest flag manufacturer in the United States. They are located in Coshocton, Ohio and employ over 150 people. Their flags are not only made here in Ohio, but are produced from 100% American made materials. I am sure they would appreciate that $1000 worth of business, as well as the families of those fallen servicemen and women. Can they count on it?

The flag I bought last summer at Back to the 50's is a big one, made in America. If I have a need for more flags I will use the above company. Thank you. If you think of another industry you want to start up, you know bring back from a third world country, my offer still stands. Being a retired guy, that's the most venture capital I can afford. Good Luck.

 

[Blue Eyed Devil]

I think you're missing the point here Bob. It's not about venture capitalism or corporate startups - Most of us cannot afford that. What we can afford however, is the support of businesses that keep American jobs here at home. You mentioned other countries "resources" like cheap labor and lax regulations. Should we support that? Should we reward that? Can child labor and no safety regulations really be viewed as "resources"? Only more reason to fight against a global economy if you ask me, yet alone accept it.

Again, I fault ignorance and apathy of the people. THIS is what should be changed. Why pay $100 for a pair of sweatshop produced Nike shoes when there are American made alternatives? Why buy Levi's jeans when there are American companies like Round House and Pointer who offer BETTER products CHEAPER than their foreign counterparts? It's not rocket science. It's as simple as looking at a label before you spend your hard earned dollars. Do a little research. If this was routinely practiced then eventually some of those products once thought unsourcable may just come back home. It's a long road, but not one that can't be navigated. Throwing up your hands and saying there's nothing you can do about it is just a cop out. When everyone is proactive, everyone wins in the long run.

 

[bob w]

Agree 100%. We should do all we can to support American made products to prevent even more loss. Picking and choosing a few American products instead of off shore produced items does not change the game much. It does make you feel patriotic however. The changes need to be more profound than that. We need to be competitive on more fronts. We need to make rubber and steel and engine blocks and electronics. Ocean vessels and space stations and nuclear power plants and off shore rigs and pipelines. We need the Rebirth of America. What's that going to require? I think we all know some of the ways this country went wrong and whaqt it will take to fix it. Now we're all jammed up. Too PC. The tail is wagging the dog, folks

One tiny example: Look at the bureaucratic obstacle course Dozer is running through just to get a home built hot rod on the barren roads of western Canada.

 

[26Troadster]

being a vet i agree on the china made flags. i wouldn't have taken them but i would have a talk with the folks who put them out. my wife's mother's side of the family is in a very low budget cemetery and it was all they could afford. now it is up to us to do something different. then you have the jerks who want to destroy everything like the one they caught in kentucky.

 

[EnglishBob]

I'm a displaced Brit living in Western Canada and have watched both countries go through exactly the same.
The massive conglomerations have now taken such a stronghold on every step of manufacturing from raw material to production to transportation I don't think it can ever come back.
Time for the politicians who are probably on the boards of these companies to be held accountable which we all know will never happen.

 

[Blue Eyed Devil]

Agree 100%. We should do all we can to support American made products to prevent even more loss. Picking and choosing a few American products instead of off shore produced items does not change the game much. It does make you feel patriotic however. The changes need to be more profound than that. We need to be competitive on more fronts. We need to make rubber and steel and engine blocks and electronics. Ocean vessels and space stations and nuclear power plants and off shore rigs and pipelines. We need the Rebirth of America. What's that going to require? I think we all know some of the ways this country went wrong and whaqt it will take to fix it. Now we're all jammed up. Too PC. The tail is wagging the dog, folks

Agreed as well... Mostly. However I am not talking about picking and choosing. If we ALWAYS select an American product instead of an off shore item, that will most definitely change the game. I am not so naïve to say there is always an option, but there are FAR more than most people would believe. Like I said, it takes minimal effort for a large impact if done collectively. That's not just "feeling patriotic", it's effecting change.

You're right, the rebirth of America is needed. It's not going to come from the top - I think we all realize that. We the people need to collectively voice what we desire. We have a huge power to make change, either negative or positive. We have been on the negative side for far too long, and it is time to say enough. Vote with your wallet. Support those who support YOU...

 

[lowbudget50]

Well put blue eyed devil! I agree 100%. There are more options than people think. Not goin to say i havent done it, bought something from an off shore supplier. But i have also payed for that more than once.

As for the Chinese made flag on the graves, i havetalked to a hand full of vets i know. They have all said they would rather have no flag on there grave than an off shore made one. Not sayin thats all vets, but the 6 or 7 i have asked all agreed

 

[billy]

I would be mad if someone stole all the flowers or flags I cared enough to buy and place on a grave.

 

[zzrodder]

I totally understand the insult that using 'offshore' products can be perceived as, especially when it comes to honoring the fallen that made the ultimate sacrifice for their country.
However, if every country was to only buy their own home grown products, there would be no such thing as exports or imports. The end of global trade and shipping - where do you draw the line? Can't eat that banana from Mexico - oh hey - forget about your morning coffee or even cocoa for chocolates - all imports...

 

[05snopro440]

I totally understand the insult that using 'offshore' products can be perceived as, especially when it comes to honoring the fallen that made the ultimate sacrifice for their country.
However, if every country was to only buy their own home grown products, there would be no such thing as exports or imports. The end of global trade and shipping - where do you draw the line? Can't eat that banana from Mexico - oh hey - forget about your morning coffee or even cocoa for chocolates - all imports...

Exactly, where do you draw the line? Why stop at buying products made in country, what about the components they're made with? Let's not buy anything made with out of country cotton, or any other out of country ingredients.

If that's your plan, then as ZZ said there will be no exports and imports. The global economy is based on the fact that someone else has what you need and they need what you have.

In addition, it's based on price. If your neighbor is willing to do a job for $5/hr less than you are, he's most likely going to get the job. Let's keep in mind that some people can't afford to shop around and buy goods made in-country. If the choice is imported goods or nothing at all, they'll buy the imported goods, and they're still making money for someone in your country.

While importing is not creating manufacturing jobs, there are other jobs made in the process that would disappear if you only purchase locally made stuff.

 

[Blue Eyed Devil]

I think if you guys go back and read what I wrote you might get a little better understanding. Buying everything locally isn't "the plan". Also saying that people can't afford to shop around for in-country goods is entirely false. It is far easier than most would believe. Sadly the only excuses are often ignorance, laziness, greed and vanity. Regardless, it isn't about not buying things that absolutely cannot be sourced here - trade is important. What it's about is supporting what we CAN provide and we CAN produce. It's about bringing back what we have let go for far too long. It's also about distinguishing the difference between "needs" and "wants". Yes, we want our coffee and chocolate and bananas. We don't need them, but it's much easier to justify indulging in them when we are supporting and producing everything that we CAN. That gives us the capital to afford such things. There is no reason why the United States should be in a trade deficit. No offense, but it might be a little more difficult for those outside our borders to understand. I get that.

Where do you draw the line? You draw it at your resources and capabilities. If you are making the most of those, which we are entirely capable of, then the few wants and luxuries will be easy to come by. It's no different than building a car with a profit in mind. If you do most of the work yourself, you can afford to farm out a few things you cannot and still come out on top at the end. Pretty simple formula really...

 

[Blue Eyed Devil]

Or to answer that question in the simplest terms and in the most pertinent way to the subject at hand -
You definitely draw the line at flags of your nation produced outside your borders. Period.

 

[sgtpontiac]

Well Said...

I've never understood why that can't be sourced to a US company either...plenty of time to plan for it...as for ObamNUTs....just another slap in the face to those that served...we owe no one an apology...we didn't start it but we sure as he!! finished it....my dad was a Purple Heart recipient in WWII...his job was to move from position to position hauling ammo....ammo bearer....caught grenade shrapnel on the run....always had leg issues...but at least he had them both... Shame that our president has such low regard for these hero's....

 

[billy]

All patriotism and rationalisms' aside.
Stealing from graves is wrong.
I don't care what the motivation.
I would be furious if someone took the flags off my marine uncles graves.

 

[Willowbilly3]

As a "buy local" advocate I see no clear place to draw the line or take a stand, as is obvious by the posts here.
I see most of my friends drive to the city for building materials at a cheaper price from Lowes or Home Depot. Everyone I know (except me) are quite willing to trot off to Mal-Wart on any whim.
Then the same people badmouth the local hardware/lumber yard because sheetrock is a buck higher. I figure if I spend my dollar locally, it will come back around and I'll have another shot at it. Spend it at some faceless corporate chain store and it's gone.
I do however refuse to be offended because that is giving the power over my peace and joy to someone else. Power which is mine and in my control.

 

[sgtpontiac]

Anything I can buy around here I do....

As a "buy local" advocate I see no clear place to draw the line or take a stand, as is obvious by the posts here.
I see most of my friends drive to the city for building materials at a cheaper price from Lowes or Home Depot. Everyone I know (except me) are quite willing to trot off to Mal-Wart on any whim.
Then the same people badmouth the local hardware/lumber yard because sheetrock is a buck higher. I figure if I spend my dollar locally, it will come back around and I'll have another shot at it. Spend it at some faceless corporate chain store and it's gone.
I do however refuse to be offended because that is giving the power over my peace and joy to someone else. Power which is mine and in my control.

To drive 14 miles to save a dollar is nuts in my opinion....unless the item is so far out of sight price wise local...I buy in town...I've been known to order items from ebay or Amazon but only because the prices were crazy different...for the same item...example...had to replace the headlamp assembly in my daughters Chrysler town and country....96 bucks from Autozone...35 bucks from Ebay....both the same brand...so it has to be a crazy high price for me to travel out of town..plus...I hate the darn traffic in the areas where these super stores are located....

 

[phil cottingham]

I bet the kind hearted person or persons that put those flags on the graves never thought about where they were made. If they hadn't put the foreign made flags there may have been NO flags. Which is worse?